Judge this

Who am I to judge?

I don't think I would use a free raffle to witness however.

[ February 18, 2006, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

Id rather just be upfront in witnessing. People really more often resent these "undercover" ways of getting them to listen to the gospel. Its different if you are offering them some sort of opportunity to go to church....then they know they are coming to church and should expect to hear something about God there.

I also wonder how indepth the witnessing session would go in that sort of setting. Ive seen people saved in ten minutes or so before, but they knew what was happening, and God had been preparing their hearts BEFOREhand, and so by the time I got to them they were just waiting for someone to explain things to them and help them get over their fear of talking to God.

 

Well said, C4K. I wouldn't use this method, but we are not the Judge.

And well said, bapmom.

 

Mima

I am a missiinary in West Africa, one of the many "white Harvest fields" of the world. If you came here with that approach I could guarantee you thousands of perople to pray your sinners prayer a day (maybe much more).

I applaude any genuine motive and zeal you may have souls. Would to God we had more people with that kind of desire and energy to be a witness. I am compelled to say this. Please understand I have no desire to pour water on your fire. Please stop this abuse of the scripture. There can be no genuine salvation apart from the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Praying a sinner's prayer never saved anyone. It is saving faith alone that saves a soul. If the person does not understand that term, "saving faith" then he or she has not been converted to Christ.

I am appalled by men and women who come to my country/mission field for a few days or weeks and return home with these astronomical figures of the people that were saved while they were here. No doubt some were sincere conversions.

I do not know all the details of your ministry and am not fit to judge, but, I would imagine it would be very difficult for people who are standing in a line at a fair with many others waitng for their turn to have the patience and ther attention to the Spirit to be saved right there in public.

Do not lose your zeal my brother. Just channel in the proper direction and method.

 

Before I became a missionary in CHina, I preached in juvenile detention facilities in various locations of the southeast. I preached in those facilities for almost ten years.

One disturbing event that I saw regularly from some visiting preachers or workers from various churches was their desire to get people to "repeat after me - the sinner's prayer".

Here's one method, of which is shocking, that I often heard at the detention facilities. In the room there would be up 50 prisoners. They are seated to one side of the facility as the preacher or visiting speaker gives the gospel message. At the end of the message the preacher/speaker would make these comments:

"If you want to go to heaven, please raise your hand." Now who wouldn't raise their hand. Of course all would for different reasons, mostly because others were raising their hands. You could always see the heads turning and looking around to see what others were doing. Then the speaker would say, "if you raised your hand, please stand". One or two would stand and then a domino affect would happen and little by little, all would stand because of the others.

Then the speaker would say, "if you are standing, repeat this sinner's prayer". It was the usual prayer, so no need to repeat it.

Then the speaker would say, "if you said this prayer, raise you hand." Then he/she would count and report back to their church that they had 50 saved tonight.

The only problem with this, was we would always break up in small groups after this. I would have eight to ten juveniles in my group and I would still be in my Army uniform. THerefore, I would ask them a simple questions by using the following situation: I would tell them that a piece of paper, that had been rolled up into a ball, was a grenade. I told them I'm going to drop it and it will explode. I would actually drop it, and then surprise the devil out of them by shouting boom and popping my hands together. It was very effective and always got their attention.

I told them you just died, now where did you go? Heaven or Hell?

AFter ten years of going to the prison and after ten years of watching juveniles repond to the above method, I almost never had one tell me he knew for sure that he was going to heaven.

Without fail, they also said they would be in Hell. Why?

They were tricked into a decision.

They were not ready. Seeds had been planted. The seed had been water, but its God who gives the increase. We can't give the increase by using methods other than planting and watering.

Today there is an expectation that planting, watering, and increase all happens in one minute? If God's illustration of planting and watering is to be taken literally, of which I believe it is, we shouldn't think that most will make a decision on the spot. The art of "husbandry" in the Bible is a much needed topic for soul winners to study.

It was sad to hear them mentioned that they were still going to hell, and even sadder to hear the preacher claim that there were 50 saved that night.

Now, sometimes in my group or in the other groups, there were some that were saved. I'm not so blind to think that out of the fifty that maybe there was not at least one. I'm sure probably that first one or two, who had raised his hand, was probaby sincere and was convicted. But the rest, I'm sorry to say, they were tricked into making decisions so that a preacher would have big numbers to report.

THose involved in "husbandry" realize the importance of planting, watering, and waiting for the Son to shine on our efforts and in time the seed springs forth into everlasting life.

Now, keep you zeal, desire, and use techniques of planting and watering and God will do the rest.

 

His in China has given an excellent description of how the group dynamic works in a Confucian culture. It is much the same in Japan. He's put in his obligatory 10 years and has understood the culture!

When a group of Asians is approached this way, none of them wants to be left outside of the group, so they will all pray the prayer and then say they did. Anytime I give the Gospel in Japan to a group, I could easily get the whole group to pray with me if I wanted to. They want both to be part of the group and to please the foreigner.

It used to be (before computer games and the aging of the Japanese society) that you could go to a park in Japan, and a big crowd of kids would gather around to see the foreigner. I would use a Gospel chart, and preach to them, and even on occasion pray with them. But I would always then ask probing questions to see what they understood and whether or not the Holy Spirit was working in their hearts.

Since each prospect we give the Gospel to has an eternal soul and may spend eternity in Hell, do we not have an obligation to deal thoroughly with each one?

 

I am not as concerned with the method used to preach the gospel as I am in the message given. If the message is not clearly biblical with depravity, responsibility, and atonement clearly explained I am not sure the message was the gospel of Jesus. I shudder to think how many people here in Ghana has been approached with an "easy beievism" gospel, prayed some prayer, and never been genuinely converted. Those people that have prayed a prayer are the hardest to win to the Lord because they think they have met the requirements! You must get them lost before you can get them saved.

 

Mima, I really admire your zeal for reaching the lost. God has blessed you by giving you such a desire. Others in this thread have spoken eloquently re: your use of the sinner's prayer, and I'll not add any more, except to urge you to heed their warnings, and to refer everybody to the thread entitled "No Sinner's Prayer, No Salvation?", which you also contributed to.

My concern is your use of gimmicks to get people to a place where you can witness to them. Two observations. Without full disclosure up front, it's deceptive. Two, it borders on a lack of confidence in the work of Holy Spirit in drawing, convicting, regenerating, etc.

Peter describes the Lord Jesus as a stumbling stone and a rock of offense. We can't dress Him up to make Him more palatable. Only the HS can make us desire God and believe the gospel.

God bless you for your heart.

Tom B.

 

Rats, I just noticed that I ended a sentence with a preposition....."contributed to." Sorry, that's something up with which I should not put.

Tom B.

 

mima, you said

A Romanian pastor told me why they don't do invitations: "We believe that it's not necessary to create an atmosphere in which the Holy Spirit can work. The Holy Spirit is sovereign. When He stirs someone's heart, we do not have to beg them to come to us. We can't keep them away." Mima, my brother, you do not have to do the Holy Spirit's work for Him.

Please be careful here. In all honesty, we cannot know if they are saved without watching them for a while, maybe years. You don't have to convince a convert that he's saved. And if he's not convinced, it is dangerous to try to prove it to him. Here again, this is for the Holy Spirit to do.

Tom B