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"just" calvinist

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by nodak, Jun 2, 2008.

  1. nodak

    nodak Active Member

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    I gotta chance to talk to some at the church we visited the last couple of weeks.

    They said they are "just" calvinist, meaning that they are not hyper in the anti evangelical sense, nor are they lordship salvation as that can lead to trusting in works rather than in Jesus. "Just" calvinist.

    The message was very evangelistic. The pastor made the point that the saved or regenerate can understand theology but that it is foolishness to the unsaved.

    Then he told the unsaved all they needed was to know they were sinners in need of Jesus to save them, and to come to Him for salvation. (He HAD gone through the Biblical gospel, beginning with the diety of Christ). He told them they might not really understand, but if they understood enough to know they were hell bound and wanted to trust Christ for salvation that Jesus never casts out those who come to Him.

    I really am starting to like this church.
     
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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    Do we have to wonder just how far Paul took his reasoning?
     
  3. LorenB

    LorenB New Member

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    I attend a church like this. Isn't it wonderful?
     
  4. nodak

    nodak Active Member

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    I always thought the church of my childhood was free grace, because everyone was urged to accept the gospel.

    I know it was landmark--and I am not any more.

    I know it was fundamentalist--and I am conservative rather than fundamentalist.

    It also claimed to be "particular" and as a kid I assumed that meant picky, fussy people about some things.

    Yesterday I was told that meant either calvinist or 4 point calvinist.

    Is that true? What is a 4 point calvinist?
     
  5. jdlongmire

    jdlongmire New Member

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    traditionally? Amyraldian
     
  6. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    No. Particular is a reference to those of the Sovereign grace doctrines (or Calvinism) but the name descibes what they understand regarding salvation or soterology.

    Particular stands for "Particular redemption" or better known as Limited Atonement. This is the doctrine where Christ's death was made only for some people (the elect) of God and therefore no one else, which is why only the elect are or will be saved. Many holding to thsi view believe that God has no love of any kind or type for those not elect but instead hated but not all. This was the name used with early baptists to distinguish themselves from the General Baptists or those who believe that Christ's death was for all man (better known as Unlimited Atonement) but only the elect would come to Christ in faith.
     
  7. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Yes, this is what the 4 pointer is typically called. A true Calvinist will not call anyone who does not agree with all 5 basic or principle doctrines a Calviinst and personally I agree with them. Therefore niether is a person who does not hold to all 5 basic principles or core views of the Arminiian an actaul Arminian either.

    Most baptists are either a 2.5 to 3 pointer when compared to the Calvinist 5.
     
  8. skypair

    skypair New Member

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    That's good, nodak. Many, many people who say they are Calvinist have not "waded in" above their ankles yet. :thumbs: There are many "near truths" in Calvinism -- depravity of the natural man, sola fide, sola scriptura, etc. It used to be that Calvinism was a euphemism for true Christianity in Christian circles whereas Arminianism rightly was abhorent. This was in the era that the outcome of the debate was not clear -- when both parties "over reacted."

    Most theological/theoretical Calvinist today are not practicing Calvinists. For most, Calvinism is an "affectation." It does detract from the "simplicity that is in Christ Jesus" but it is really irrelevant to what they practice every day.

    skypair
     
  9. jdlongmire

    jdlongmire New Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean, but my theology is my life.

    Orthodoxy leads to orthopraxy which leads to doxology.

    Calvinism is orthodoxy. :)
     
    #9 jdlongmire, Jun 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2008
  10. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    Rip: Right on, right on, right on !!
     
  11. nodak

    nodak Active Member

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    Thanks for the responses!

    I will keep learning what these folks believe. All I know is they clearly preach the nuts and bolts of born again, blood washed salvation, the sinner's need to turn to Jesus for salvation, and seem to be living out Christian love.

    They are the most evangelistic we have found in this town, and stress trusting the Savior both for salvation and guidance in life the most.

    Guess they can call themselves purple people eaters as long as they do that!
     
  12. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>

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    Lordship salvation does not lead to people trusting in works rather than in Jesus.

    Sounds like a church that is biblical in its soteriology. There are a great many of these.
     
  13. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>

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    Calvinism is the simplicity that is in Jesus. It simplifies it all down to what the Bible teaches.
     
  14. webdog

    webdog Active Member

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    Satan knows theology quite well, and I would venture this pastor would not allude to him being "saved". :)
     
  15. skypair

    skypair New Member

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    Webdog,

    Weren't you looking for a job recently? How's that coming? I been remembering you in prayer, brother. :praying:

    skypair
     
  16. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 New Member

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    simplicity

    The simplicity found in Jesus is to love God and love others as ourself and God will do the same with us.

    Deuteronomy 7:9
    Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commands.

    Psalm 31:23
    Love the LORD, all his saints! The LORD preserves the faithful, but the proud he pays back in full.

    1 Corinthians 13
    Love
    1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

    Israel thinks they are the elect of God to, but they were cut out for unbelief. We are not to be arrogant if God did not spare these naturasl branches He will not spare us either.

    Many people who think they are the elect of God will come to Jesus saying I did this and this in your name and He will say I never knew you go away you evil doer.

    Keep your eyes on Jesus, He is your only hope for even the elect of God was cut out for unbelief.

    To say that the Jews are not the elect of God, you don't know the scripture.

    Many of you entered through the words of Christ saying God loved the world that He sent His and whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life, do not let men take away what God convinced you of in your youth.

    Those of you entered through election without taking the faith God is giving you through the words of Jesus first. You were being elected to faith when you heard the words of Jesus, but you are not the elect until you believed, you went through the wrong door. You must enter election through Jesus. Jesus is the only way.
     
    #16 psalms109:31, Jun 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2008
  17. webdog

    webdog Active Member

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    I appreciate the prayer, brother. Still unemployed, but I'm hoping a business deal funds in the next few days that will make job hunting a moot point.
     
  18. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    I've been doing some thinking, I'm no longer a Calvinist...
     
  19. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Are you kidding?
     
  20. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Not at all! I simply adhere to the doctrines of grace. :laugh:
     
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