JUSTIFICATION and SANCTIFICATION

Nope, I didn't miss that. By God's word is the only way anyone would know to be baptized. You can't figure it out on paper or make a logical connection between being baptized in water and having the forgiveness of sins.

No, it is done in faith, because God's word directs us.

Notice, the washing is in water. How do you know to be washed in water? By the word.

What did Jesus say? "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved".

When was this first carried out? On the day of Pentecost as recorded in Acts 2.

Why were they baptized? For the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). Why was Jesus blood shed? For the remission of sins (Matt 26:28). God's word is truth and it shows us that baptism is for the remission of sins, and baptism washes away sins (Acts 22:16).

Read Acts 22:16 and compare it to Eph 5:26 and Acts 2:38, 41, and 47. The connection is obvious.

 

Hi Claudia, I am glad we are on good terms again. Actually what I wanted you to answer was the meaning behind John saying a child of God, CAN'T SIN and DOESN'T SIN. You have said some good things but have avoided giving me a direct translation of the scriptures I posted which use CAN'T SIN and DOESN'T SIN.

On righteousness, you have to remember that there are two aspects here and not just one. The righteousness that gets a person into Heaven is perfect righteousness. It is not close to perfect. It is not a good life that was lived. It is not a life lived in constant prayer and fear of the Lord. The righteouess that saves is the very same righteousness that God has. It is not like His, it is His and it is placed on us at the moment we are saved. on the other hand, God tells us to live a righteous life because that is the only way we can reach His elect with the gospel. We are His workmanship, created for good works. The righteouness you alude to is not righteouness unto God but unto man. It is for the forwarding of God's message, it is for doing the works that God has for us. We are to live in righteousness, not to earn God's favor, but to gain the favor and trust of men, which makes our message of the gospel valid. Hope that made sense. God's sees the heart of each person. He is everywhere and knows everything. He knows who is His already, there is no working toward what God already knows, there is just working IN what God knows.

Thanks for the good debate on this!

In Christ,
Brian

 

There is a inward man and there is a outward man. The inward man is what is born again raised to walk a newness of life and cannot sin and is the perfect man you talking about. It is a fit subject for Heaven and does not need to be cleaned up any more but the flesh has to die in order to be made alive. As the soul or inward man had to die dead to the love of sin and made alive in Christ Jesus even so the flesh has to die and be sown a natural body but then in the resurrection raised a Spiritual body.
BBob

 

Hello Bob,

I'm sorry, but I must disagree with this. You have well stated that there is a inward man and a outward man. But I do not feel this is where the battle lies. The outward man lives out the inward man...OR in many cases...tries to cover the inward man. The battle it seems to me in all within. Who will control the inward man? That is the battle.

It has already been stated a few times by a few on this tread about the differences in righteousness. In that lies the key.

A closer look at the outward man shows us that he can never be righteous. Outwardly we TRY our best, yet we fail over and over again. The failing comes from the inward man. As a believer I sin . Even in good works i sin. If help a little old lady to cross the road, I will have pride in my doing good. Pride is sin folks. Our good deeds do not help us from sinning they also make us sin. So it is clear as you have already stated Bob, that the outward deeds are not our righteousness that can be called perfect.

When we look at the inward man we see that the actions that drive the outward come from the inward man. The point of the book of James is saying..what you have in your heart (faith) you will see in your actions (works). The battle is within. Our actions shows our heart. The old saying..”if you want to know what is inside of a pot, bump into it and see what comes out.” I say this..."If you want to see what is inside of a man..play basketbal with him and foul him real hard." In a jam and when we are crossed wrongly..the old man pops his ugly head out and shows our insides.

Paul takes up this battle in Romans 7...
******************
14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? of sin.
****************

So...If sin comes from inward man, and is acted out in the outer man, where is our righteousness? Well...that is all that we have. There are no other parts to us. The fact is..It's not in us at all. Paul tells us in the last verse..

25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! ? So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Christ is our only hope of being "right" in Gods eyes. Face it..we will sin. This does not mean that because this is truth, that we can just sin with no care, for Christ will take care of it. The Law is still in place, but the Law will never bring us righteousness. No matter how many times you go to church. No matter how many people you share Gods word with. No matter how many little old ladies you help cross the street. No matter how many cats you DO NOT KICK. No keeping of the law will bring us righteousness. Yet..we keep the Law. But our righteousness only comes though Christ.

While on this earth we will always carry our sin nature. Now that we are believers we have Holy Spirit to help keep us from sin...IF WE WALK IN THE SPIRIT. Yet just as Paul, there are times we do not. Our old man/sin nature is always there trying to get back in control. If we let him..we will sin.


In Christ....James

 

Please let me make it clear that the inner man is the strongest and has to bring the outward man under subjection. That is why I do not believe the outward man of a Christian can go too far to be lost.

Rom:8:4-10
4: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5: For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6: For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8: So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10: And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

James; Seems to me that ever Scripture you posted say the inward man is the one cleaned up and the Bible says:


Luke, chapter 17
"20": And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

"21": Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans, chapter 8
"9": But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

(His Spirit is within you, not in the flesh.)

"10": And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

"11": But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
(Christ is not of the outward man but the inward.)


Galatians, chapter 4

"19": My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
(If you are born again it is inwardly, not outwardly.)


KJMatt.23

26": Thou blind Pharisee'>, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be'> clean also.

"27": Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

"28": Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.


James, not sure what you were saying but the inward part is what puts on Christ. The Laws are put in the heart and mind of the inward man. I would hate to think it was my outward for half of mine is dead with 2 open heart surgeries. Maybe if we discussed it more closely we might agree more.

[ May 19, 2006, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]

 

Sorry James; I copied part of Claudia's post thinking it was yours no wonder it was what I believe. Please disregard the Scriptures from Romans of Claudia's even though they are excellent Scripture.

 

I haven't been around a few days and this thread got away from me a little. The scriptures you all have provided need to be read with a thought in mind. That is that, what I said before, entrance into Heaven takes the very same righteousness that Jesus Christ has. It is not a like righteousness or a "close to" righteouness or even a "working toward" righteousness, it is the very righteousness that Christ has, and it is completely perfect. Can we obtain that by living a certain type of life and doing certain things? No, we can't. That is sole reason that Grace is Grace. Grace is receiving something we don't deserve on any level. It is not wages. If works or living a certain life help us into Heaven then that is wages, not Grace. Receiving something based on doing something else, is not Grace. It is very much what many other religions of the world do. Christianity and grace are different. There is no earning of salvation on any level. Anyway, look at some of the verses that were posted from Romans:

8: So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10: And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Paul says that they are not in the flesh but in the Spirit. This is a reminder to us of how we ought to live based on a foregone Truth, that Truth being that we are IN CHRIST already and so in the Spirit.

Our actions show the world to whom we belong, they cannot prove anything to the One whom we belong.

In Christ,
Brian

 

I know you are talking to Brian here...

But, I'd like to ask you...

By who's definition do we call someone in rebellion?

Paul wrote about food a concept that I think is entirely lost on you...

Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Romans 14:7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone.
Romans 14:8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
Romans 14:9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.

SMM

 

Claudia,



At least I know which direction the "Target" is in.

SMM

 

James;
Well, the carnal mind is not subject to the Laws of God and neither indeed can be. So, which mind is subject to the Laws of God. I say the inward for inwardly is where Christ himself dwells. If any man will hear my voice and open the door (door of your heart) I will come and and take up my abode with or in can't remember which and go no more out. So to say the inward man of a saved person is sinful I think is wrong. I think the inward part is righteous because the Lord himself dwells there, it is the outward man who is always in trouble with the thorn in the flesh and has to receive the chastisement of God to stay in good standing with the Lord.

blessings,

BBob

 

2 Corinthians, chapter 4

"15": For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.

"16": For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

(The soul is perishing every day, we are getting older and sicker. The inward man (soul) is renewed day by day "we get closer to God and our faith grows stronger everyday".)

Romans, chapter 7
"18": For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

"19": For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

"20": Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

"21": I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

"22": For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

"23": But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

"24": O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

(The carnal mind is not subject to the Laws of God "in other words if we live after the flesh we shall die" but the Spiritual mind is life "if we live after the Spirit we shall live". But we are not of them who live after the flesh but the Spirit. That is where God said he would put them in our hearts and minds. It is not talking about these natural hearts for if it was I am half left out for that is all I got left and some have transplants but it is talking about the heart of the inward man where Christ himself dwells and is the stronger man for he that is within you is stronger than he that is in the world. That is where God puts the Law itself and inwardly you are stronger therefore the righteous of the Law is fulfilled in us. The outward man has to wait until the resurrection to receive its change but the inward man has already been changed from a dead state of sin unto a lively hope in Christ.)

BBob