1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Justification by an Imputed Righteousness

Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by KenH, Nov 24, 2021 at 11:05 AM.

  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    36,557
    Likes Received:
    581
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "Our sins when laid upon Christ were yet personally ours, not his; so his righteousness when put upon us is yet personally his, not ours. What is it then? Why, "he was made to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him," 2 Cor. 5:21
    It is therefore a justifying virtue ONLY BY IMPUTATION, or as God reckoneth it to us; even as our sins made the Lord Jesus sin, by God's reckoning of them to him.
    It is absolutely necessary that this be known of us; for if the understanding be muddy as to this, it is impossible that such should be sound in the faith."

    - John Bunyan, Justification by an Imputed Righteousness
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,503
    Likes Received:
    679
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Here's the beauty in Imputation. God imputed Adam's sin to us. Then God Imputed our sin to Christ. And then He Imputed Christ's righteousness to us. All according to Romans 5.

    But look how we made out. Jesus is God, so we now have the infinite righteousness of God worthy of all the blessings only God deserves!! Had Adam remained sinless, we would have only his righteousness imputed to us. But now we have God's!
     
  3. ntchristian

    ntchristian Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2019
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    66
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I don't see imputation as a doctrine of beauty. To me, it is a horrendous doctrine.
     
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,503
    Likes Received:
    679
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Most do. But I have the righteousness of God in place of my own diseased goodness.
     
  5. ntchristian

    ntchristian Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2019
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    66
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Well, I apologize. I meant imputation as you described it. I don't think that's what the Bible teaches about imputation. But I can wholeheartedly agree with what you just said above.
     
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,503
    Likes Received:
    679
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Paul teaches imputation in Romans 5. You should spend some time on it.
     
  7. ntchristian

    ntchristian Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2019
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    66
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I have, but thanks for the suggestion. "Imputation", as Protestants have taught it, is an example of how the West has created "another gospel" based in legalism. The RCC has done the same, though in different ways.

    I don't want to fight. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.
     
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,503
    Likes Received:
    679
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But you refuse to study the topic and yet pass this judgment?
     
  9. ntchristian

    ntchristian Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2019
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    66
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Did you not see where I said I had studied the topic?
     
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,503
    Likes Received:
    679
    Faith:
    Baptist
    From what source?
     
  11. ntchristian

    ntchristian Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2019
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    66
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Lots of sources, over many years -- many decades actually.
     
  12. ntchristian

    ntchristian Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2019
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    66
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Got to get some rest now. Back later, God willing....
     
  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,503
    Likes Received:
    679
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Really? Did you see this? This is Pauls's teaching on imputation in one verse.
    “for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous.” Romans 5:19 (YLT)
     
  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    36,557
    Likes Received:
    581
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Romans 4:5-8 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

    “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
    And whose sins are covered;
    Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
     
  15. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    36,557
    Likes Received:
    581
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "It is a better righteousness than Adam had in innocence, or the angels now have in heaven. Adam's righteousness was the righteousness of a creature, but this the righteousness of God. That was losable and was actually lost (Eccl. 7:9), for God made man upright, but he sought out many inventions, in seeking which he lost his righteousness; but Christ's righteousness can never be lost, it abides for ever. The same may be said of the righteousness of Angels, which at best is but a creature righteousness, and might be lost, as it was by a large number of them, and might have been by the rest, had it not been for confirming grace from Christ. Christ's righteousness may well be called (Luke 15:22), the best robe, for it is such an one as Adam never had to his back in innocence, or the angels now have in glory." - John Gill

    John Gill - The Doctrine Of Imputed Righteousness Without Works, Asserted And Proved (ochristian.com)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    36,557
    Likes Received:
    581
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thank you for bringing up this point. I had not considered it before, but your post caused me to think about it and led me to the quote by John Gill.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. ntchristian

    ntchristian Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2019
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    66
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    These are the typical Western interpretations of Paul. While I agree that our faith is accounted or credited to us as righteousness, as the scripture plainly says, it does not say that humans are guilty of Adam's sin. That is a wrong conclusion that only Western Christianity could come up with. It is a distortion and a false interpretation, and it is found in both forms of Western Christendom, both Protestant and Catholic -- originating, as many false doctrines did, in Augustine and continuing with Luther and especially Calvin.

    For the differences in East and West on this matter, see the following. Yes, I know it's a Wikipedia article, but this is factual and accurate: Original sin - Wikipedia

    This is a prime example of the great difficulty I have in joining a Protestant church, and yet I cannot return to Orthodoxy.
     
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,503
    Likes Received:
    679
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Wrong again!

    “for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous.” Romans 5:19 (YLT) = Imputation
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. ntchristian

    ntchristian Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2019
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    66
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    That does not mean what you interpret it to mean. It does not teach that we inherit sin or guilt. A man cannot be guilty of another man's sin. Until you learn that the early church did not move in the Western mindset, you will not be able to understand or interpret scripture the way the early Christians did. You were taught only Western interpretations of original sin, so you cannot see anything else when you read scripture such as the above. I would implore you to please study what the early church believed and why. If you ever truly see and understand that, you will discard your rationalist, legalist views.
     
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,503
    Likes Received:
    679
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You don't understand Imputation. Therefore you think scripture does not teach it.
     
Loading...