KEEPING G THE LAW -is not an OPTION!

Answer me this Claudia, do you keep every OT Law or just the 10 Commandments?

 

I see once again you have no anwser for the truth. It seems if you do not post SDA dogma, you have nothing to say.

How sad.


In Christ..James

 

Romans 10 1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Christ is the end of the law, as a means of righteousness. The Jews were trying to establish their own righteousness by outwardly observing the law. They thought that this was their salvation. Not understanding that all our righteousness is a s filthy rags unto God. They were ignorant of God’s righteousness, and were trying to establish their own. They did not understand that Christ was, and is the righteousness of God. For he is God, in the flesh. Only with Christ in the heart can one be righteous, only because Christ is righteous, and he is in the heart, not because of anything in or of the sinner. This does not do away with the law, or any of the commandments, rather it establishes them within the heart of the believer.

Romans 8 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Christ condemned sin in the flesh, by living the righteousness of the law, in our sinful flesh. He always walked in the Spirit. This was so that “ the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” It is the carnal mind that is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be. Christ is our perfect example in all things pertaining to walking in the Spirit. He has left us his perfect example. He obeyed all the commandments of God, including the fourth. We should therefore do the same. Not as a means of righteousness, or salvation, but rather out of love for God, and our Savior Jesus Christ. There can be no contention on this point. Those who walk in the Spirit, will walk as Christ walked here on earth, for he was our perfect example of one who walks in the Spirit.

There is only one reason that we are at odds on this point, that is because you refuse to respect the fourth commandment. Please, honestly answer the next ten simple questions for me.

Is it okay to have another god apart from the trinity, Father, Son, Holy Spirit?

Is it okay to bow down and worship an image, or anything other than God?

Is it okay to take the name of the Lord in vain?

Is it okay to dishonor your parents?

Is it okay to kill?

Is it okay to commit adultery?

Is it okay to steal?

Is it okay to bear false witness against your neighbor?

Is it okay to covet that which belongs to another?

Is it okay not to remember or keep holy the day that God has told us to remember, and keep holy?

You know as well as I do, that you answered no to the first nine of these questions. Because you know as well as I do that the law is good, and holy.

I Timothy 1 8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Romans 7 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The contention between us is really only about one thing. That is, your refusal to accept the authority of God, and the scriptures regarding only one commandment. You refuse to remember, and keep holy, the day that God has commanded you to do so. You even refuse to follow the example of your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ on this point. Ignoring the conclusive statement made by our Savior regarding the law, you choose to twist the meaning of more obscure scriptures to support your rebellion. The end of these things will not be well for you. Please prayerfully reconsider your position.

Matthew 5 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

II Peter 3 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Beware of how you handle the scriptures. The word of God is a consuming fire to those who would pervert it. If what you believe makes the scriptures openly contradict themselves, then you have a problem. Tell us, how did Christ not mean what He said, when He said that the law absolutely would not change? What did He mean when He said that anyone who breaks even the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do so, which you are doing, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven? Do you want to be called least in the kingdom of heaven? I hope not.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

To anwser you...NO. You do not see the point of grace.

Grace does not mean we change our actions. It means we change our reasons for those actions. Under the Law we keep the Law because of fear. We follow the Law in the OT for we MUST.

In Grace our actions are nearly the same.

But now we Follow Christ because we love Him. In Grace we live in love not fear. the Law brings fear with it, for we always sin. We can never keep the Law in full. We still try in the NT grace, but now we know our sins are covered under the blood, by the grace of God.

Does this mean we live in sin so that grace may be greater? GOD FOREBID!! Paul covers this..for he heard it back then.

2nd...please do one thing for me. read romans 4. romans 4 shows how if we work for salvation...then salvation is due us. God owes us nothing. Salvation is a gift. Free it is. This is Gods Grace...not our works.

Once in salvation we still carry our bodies with us. Our bodies actions show our heart. This is the main point of James. If we are saved..our actions should show our love.

I'll be bold and say this...If one says they Love God and never go to church...i do not see how he can. I mean..God knows his heart..but his love is not showing. I'm not God..and that person will have to anwser on his own. But the fact is..what we love we do.

I love cake...i eat cake. I love basketball...i play basketball. I love imac computers..and I have 20 some to prove it. Our love shows in our actions. I love God..i follow Him...i go to church..read His Word...on and on. If we love God...our actions will show it.

Yet...under grace we do not have to show it. We are free from the law


In Christ....James

 

I disagree. Our contention is not over one day. It is over a covenant.

Circumcision was both a covenant and a command given by God to Abraham and his descendants.

God now says this command no longer applies (I Cor. 7:18-20; Gal. 5:1-8; 6:12-16; Acts 15:1-29)

The covenant made at Mt. Sinai, says Aaron and his descendants are the only priests

Jesus is High Priest, ...He was not a descendant of Aaron. This proves there has been a change in the law (Heb. 7:11-18; cf. I Pet. 2:5,9)

God commanded people to offer animal sacrifices

Sacrifices have ceased to be offered because Jesus is our perfect sacrifice (Heb. 10:1-18)

God commanded Israel to keep various holy days,

Today should not keep them (Col. 2:14-17; Gal. 4:10,11)

When the New Covenant came,..the old is done away with. Christ is our rest, so the picture of Christ is no longer needed. Just as Christ was our sacrifice for sins, now the PICTURE of the sheed blood is not needed.

****************
Beware of how you handle the scriptures.

INDEED.

Here is a good note and helpful hint for you.

The New Covenant does not start at Matt 1:1. Many of your support verses come under the old covenant. Christ was peaching manily to a nation as coming King. After the Jews said no, after Christ sheed His blood, after He overcame death, The new covenant begins.

With this in mind go back and read your support verse and see where the New Covenant starts.

Now...one day some of the old covenant will once again be intact. This is after the Church age comes to a close. Christ does Come as King of the Jews and once again will work with one nation. Those from the Church age that believed on Him will rule with Him.

In Christ...James

 

Congratulations! You have obviously 'arrived', unlike Paul, for example. Not to mention, your 'wants', by your own claim, are superior to his.

Again, Claudia and Tam- congratulations to both on 'getting there'. Me? I've still got a ways to go.

So here's thumbs up for Claudia. I did not read all the post, but I pretty much know what she believes, and that is closer to the truth than some others.

Oh yeah! I did read all the post.

In His grace,
Ed

PS My quotes herein do include the 'topic heading' found in the NKJV, for I thought they were instructive.

 

I think we have to distinguish between Ceremonial Law and Moral Law. If anyone think such distinction is groundless, then he or she should think about the animal sacrifice and Crucifixion and should recall the conference in Jerusalem which anounce only several requirements for the Gentiles.

I have some Messianic Jewish friends who emphasize keeping the Law. Apparently he is a born again believer. I told him that it is understandable if Jews try to keep the Law even after they accepted the Lord Jesus as Messiah but that it might be for Jews to preach the gospels to the fellow Jews, and that Gentiles are not bound upon the Law. Then he said even gentiles are supposed to keep the law, keeping the Law is in the higher level of faith while the simple salvation is done without keeping the Law.

However, in the observation for a long time, I have the conviction that Born-Again believers are supposed to follow Holy Spirit, not the Jewish Law, even that Jews are supposed to follow Holy Spirit, and the guidance by Holy Spirit may be different from what we think and estimate based on the Law.

If anyone wants to keep the commandments, then one should keep in the following way.

Deut 26: 18
18 And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments

Deut 27:1
And Moses with the elders of Israel commanded the people, saying, Keep all the commandments which I command you this day

How can we keep ALL COMMANDMENTS?

Any of you may say that I have kept all the laws throughout my life!
I tried not to eat the blood in the meat and I dipped the beef meat overnight, then next morning I tried to squeeze out all the blood out of it, but noticed a little trace of blood coming out of the meat. Then I soaked it in the water and kept it in Fridge another night. Nevertheless I noticed very, very small amount of blood still exist in the meat. Are you keeping this law seriously? If you are a woman, are you not wearing any man's garment at all ? (Deut 22:5)

Do you keep 613 commandments well?


The only way to keep all the commandments is to follow the Holy Spirit.

 

To those who think we should still obey OT laws:

Exodus 21:7 states that we can sell our daughters into slavery. How much would be a good price for her?

Leviticus 21:20 states that I must not approach the altar if I have a defect in my sight. I'm nearsighted. Can I still come to the altar or does my vision have to be 20/20?

Leviticus 25:44 states that we can have slaves from neighboring countries. Does that mean I can own Mexicans and Canadians?

Also in Leviticus, Chapter 11:6-8, it states that hogs are unclean for me. Does that mean I can't play football with a pigskin?

 

As to the last couple of sentences, once we start, don't we have to continue? I read this as an "all or nothing" proposition. (Gal. 5:1-4; Jas. 2:8-11)

As to the opening sentences which I quote-

Agreed! There is a difference between the Ceremonial (or 'religious' Law, found generally in some of Leviticus and Deuteronomy ) as well as the 'Civil' (or Family Law, generally found in some of Leviticus, and Numbers )and the 'Moral Law' i.e. "The Ten Commandments". And in fact, according to the Lord Jesus Christ, at least one precept of the Civil Law, and one precept of the Ceremonial Law have precedence over the Moral Law, and the Moral Law, therefore, hangs on the Civil and Ceremonial Law, not the other way around. In other words, the Ten Commandments is the 'summation' of "the Law", which is in itself, summed up in "Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself". (Rom 13:9; Gal. 5:14)

Did you get it? This is not a 'summation', per se, from Jesus; rather it is two direct quotations, i.e. 'commandments', the one from the Civil Law - "‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’" (Lev. 19:18); and the other one, from the Ceremonial Law, is 'The Shema'- " ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one. 30 And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’" (Deut: 6:4-5). Note Jesus adds "There is no other commandment greater than these" (Mk.12:31b); and "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." (Matt. 22:40)

It is all one, and only one, indivisible Law!

As Christians, we are no more bound to "keep the 'Big Ten'", than we are to offer the blood sacrifice at Jerusalem. The Lord Jesus Christ did it all, once for all time, lock, stock, and barrell.

He restates, as well as other Scriptures, in the language and beseechings of grace, our responsibilities of service, and how we establish the Law. That is through faith.

In His grace,
Ed

[ May 01, 2006, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: EdSutton ]

 

In a short and sweet response to the topic-

"KEEPING G(sic) THE LAW -is not an OPTION!", I fully agree! The Lord Jesus removed that 'option' from and for us, at and on the cross!

In His grace,
Ed

 

If you love Me you will keep My commandments and "love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength" and "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" on the two hang all the Law and the Prophets.

You can not keep the two I just listed without keeping all of the ten. amen

[ May 01, 2006, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]

 

Amen!

Unfortunately, the reason All the Law and The Prophets are being 'kept' is not because of a "Have To".

But, because The Love of Christ constrains us...

Plus it will not be the letter of the Law we keep but the Spirit of the Law...

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

We either live in the Liberty of Grace...

(Not as a license to sin...)

Or, we are under every jot and title of the Written Code...

Mike Sr.

 

I agree;
Before the coming of Christ the Law was in the flesh but after His coming, He said I will put my laws in your heart and write them in your mind. The Scripture goes on to say "The righteous of the Law is fulfilled in us."

The letter of the law is in the flesh as I think you have just said.

 

The unsaved break the law therefore it is death and the saved keep the law therefore the righteous of the law is fulfilled in us. I thought after agreeing with SMM that I had forgotten that "the commandments came sin revived and I died".

But, I did close that post by saying "The letter of the law is in the flesh which is what I am saying now also."

 

We do tend to make Salvation and being a "King's Kid" a bit complicated at times...

But, it all comes back to matters of the heart...

Either Jesus and His Love is in Residence...

Or, He isn't...


Here's another "interesting" Scripture...

Matthew 17:26 "From others," Peter answered. "Then the sons are exempt," Jesus said to him.

I know this is about taxes...

But, there's something just under the surface about if I am a True Son (adopted though I may be) and an Heir of God...

Then I am not a stranger to God...

A Child of God is _not_ something I do... It's what I are...

Even when I miss the mark...

I do no real harm because I am facing and shooting at the target.

(No one else is in my line of fire!)

But, that is only true as long as I am Facing Jesus and aiming at the correct target...

Does this make any sense?

Mike Sr.

 

Claudia_T

I believe that you have a zeal for God but not according to knowledge. For your being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to
establish your own righteousness, you have not submitted yourself unto the righteousness of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believes.