KEEPING G THE LAW -is not an OPTION!

So, if you're really saved,you don't have to worry about keeping the 10 Commamdments?

If you slip up every once in awhile and kill somebody, it doesn't matter and God can't see it because you are covered with the blood of Jesus?

That's what it sounds like some people are saying.

Selah,

Tam

 

That is a pretty good "bible text" - just not actually "in" my Bible.

Here are texts that actually ARE in the Bible I have (NASB). Interesting their focus vs the one above.

But “some” might argue that these saints “are special” and don’t actually live under the ONE Gopsel of Gal 6. As far fetched as that idea is – lets pursue some “proofs” showing that such wild speculation can not possibly be true.


Here John shows us that the saints of God commanded to “keep” the Pre-Cross Commandments of God.

And here John shows us that the saints are still to keep the commandments of God AFTER the resurrection of Christ!

Is it any surprise that Paul is in full agreement with John on this post-cross requirement to ”keep the commandments of God”?

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I have a better Idea - show some interest in the Bible "itself".

These texts in God's Word are presented AS IF "sola scriptura" had meaning for some on the oppsoing end of this dicussion.

In Christ,

Bob

 

How about that D.L Moody?

 

"So, if you're really saved,you don't have to worry about keeping the 10 Commamdments?"


No, God allows me the grace to be able to overcome the fact that alone I am completely unable to keep them. God and God alone, through His Son Christ, grants me the ability to.

 

Hey - Dustin is sounding like this guy --

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3871/6.html#000077

 

Children,

Let's keep this subject to a debate of the facts - and stop the personal attacks.

Dan Todd, moderator

 

What comments are you referencing?

My point above is that Dustin's acceptance of God's Ten Commandments is similar to D.L Moody's acceptance of the same truth.

I am in support of both.

 

I think this is one of the comments, Bob...

I think you intentionally declined to understand the point I was making...

And, it was, and will always be...

That the "Have To" of keeping the Law is so complex as to require a team of Biblical Lawyers to keep one life straight enough to stay saved...

Of course, it is not possible to Keep the Law without God's Change of Heart and the Power of the Holy Spirit...

But, when I became a New Creation in Christ Jesus my "Want To's" Changed..

Paul wrote like this:

Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

-The Solution?

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

I do _NOT_ advocate using this passage as an excuse for sin... I agree with Paul:

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Another interesting point...

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

*IF* we are Really dead with/in Christ then..

Not only does a 'Dead Man' have not rights...

But, 'Dead Men' can't sin...

And, even if they could the death penalty has already been extracted!

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

The only problem with being a living sacrifice is that the temptation remains to crawl off the altar...

But, I reiterate...

It seems very strange to me a Charismatic/Pentecostal/Armenian whose background tends toward legalism and condemnation to be defending Grace at all costs over the Law!

If OSAS is the fact that some claim it to be...

Then how can one at the same time preach a doctrine of keeping the Law?

Do you follow?

What difference does it make if you are OSAS to keep or not keep the Law?

Because... If you're OSAS saved not keeping the law has no consequences...

Irregardless, one who has the Law of Christs Love shed abroad in their hearts will unconsciously keep the Spirit of the Law and the Prophets...

And, it is the Spirit behind the Law and the Prophets that matters not man's interpretation of them. For the Spirit speaks the things of God...

Mike Sr.

 

You are correct, Claudia. I misunderstood another post. You have not made that claim. I apologize for that part. And I misidentified you there. Only Tam made that explicit implication. Ed

 

You dont have to keep those laws anymore, just the ten commandments.

Claudia </font>[/QUOTE]On this I will say, On what authority? James says:

I don't find anything here about elevating the "Big Ten" over the rest of it. As I have previously posted, "The Law", a NT synonym in every instance, for the whole 'Mosaic code', is an undivisible, unified whole. This would seem to be consistent with Jesus words in Matt. 5:17- 20, where He says,

Did you get that? "One of the least of these Commandments"? Nothing about chopping them up and excising the "Big Ten" from the rest, dropping the remaining 600 or so, that I see.

You can't have it both ways, for Jesus never said it both ways, nor did He 'command', or even suggest both ways, that I see.

As to the Law, I'm a Gentile, not a Jew. As one apart from it, I never had it in the first place. I couldn't "keep it", if I would; as a Christian, 'not under the Law but under grace', I wouldn't "keep it", if I could.

The only thing at the end of the Law was death, for failure. To follow up on the allegory of Galatians 4, for what possible reason would I want to dwell out in the desert with Hagar, as opposed to living in the tents with Sarah? Why would I want to be left out to die, as Ishmael, instead of inheriting all, as Isaac? As my own nephew is wont to say,

"Ah 'on't get it!!"

Nor do I!

In His grace,
Ed

 

Naw, I didn't! I answered another post, the one just above!

Ed

 

What Laws were in the Ark of Covenant that the priests carried across Jordan?

 

Ed Sutton said:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by tamborine lady:


I do know this. If we are truly saved, and are HIS own, we will be led by the Spirit of God to obey the commandments(10).

We are saved by grace, there is no question. We also will be led by the Spirit to not murder, not kill, not lust, etc.

It's not a matter of have to, it's a matter of want to.

I can do any thing I want to do. But since I accepted Jesus, I no longer want to sin. I WANT to follow Jesus!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Congratulations! You have obviously 'arrived', unlike Paul, for example. Not to mention, your 'wants', by your own claim, are superior to his.

quote:
************************************
Tam says:

I wasn't going to address this, but since you brought it up again, now I will answer you.

First of all, I do not claim to be better than Paul! What you can't see, because you're so busy "having it your way", is that our ways are closer than you think.

I believe that when we are walking in the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit helps us not to sin. Everyone understands that. But when I say, He helps us keep the commandments, then suddenly it is some awful statement.

I understand where you are coming from. I really do.

My question still remains, (which nobody bothered to answer yet, that I saw) So if we slip up ever once in awhile and kill somebody it's O.K. because God doesn't see it because it's covered by the blood??

Bob Ryan answered with scripture, showing that we are keeping the commandments when we follow the bible, but nobody else addressed it, and I know you don't all agree with Bob.

I've heard this statement so many time: When I sin, God doesn't see it because I'm covered with the blood of Jesus!!

Yet the bible says:

James 1-13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

How could we err, if all we had to do was say the sinners prayer nad we're home free????

I'm not better than Paul. I'm not better than you or anyone else. We are all in this together. So instead of carping at each other, how about a little Love?


Peace,

Tam

 

Actually, doesn't the text you cited say just the reverse? Hence you cannot keep the "Big Ten" unless you have kept both the civil (Lev. 32:18b) and ceremonial (Deut. 6:4,5) Law, first? For all, including the Ten Commandments, hang on these two commandments, not the other way around.
Note Lev. 32:37 , which says:

and Deut. 6:1-2a) which says:

say the same thing, in essence, and are in the near context of the two verses Jesus quoted, as well.

'Legalism' under whatever name or title, and irrespective of the 'good intentions;' is still 'legalism'.

In His grace,
Ed

 

Ed, I believe when the Bible speaks of the law you must be careful not to confuse the Law of the Commandments with the ceremonial law, circumcision law, sacrificial law but be very precise to what law it is speaking of as Jesus was when he quoted the commandments to the young man who said "what must I do to be saved". Jesus didn't start with the laws he really did come to fullfil, put the circumcision in the heart, make a sacrifice for ever, and the washing of the pots and pans etc but love thy enemies.

I really think you misunderstood my quote in the beginning. I simply was saying if you keep the two you have kept the commandments that were carried in the ark across Jordan by the preists. Which were the tablets of Moses, which were the Ten Commandments.
When the Bible does say we are not under the law that is exactly what it is talking about, The Sacrificial, The Circumcision, The Ceromonial (which include not to wear clothing of different material, stoning your wife to death etc.}

You are adding to the confusion that already exists about the law. That is why Paul said there are those who desire to be teachers of the law and know not what they say and neither do they understand, but we that know the law know it is not for the righteous but for the sinner and ungodly. Also, shall we make void the law through faith, God forbid, yea we establish the law. (what does that mean) It means where and to who is the law for. It for the sinner and ungodly for we are made free from the law by Christ, not that the Commandments were done away with (Ten) but that we don't do those thing no more for we are kept by the power of God, therefore we don't keep the Law but are kept by it for they are put in our hearts and our minds and we just don't commit that kind of sin anymore. (example) If a sign posted of the law about drunk drivers going to jail, well I would be free from that law because I don't drink. Likewise the Commandments, I am free because I don't do those things anymore. Now some don't want to call them the Ten Commandments but still say we can't murder,steal,lie etc. What one of the Ten Commandments can you be guilty of breaking and go to Heaven, can you be an adultereous? a liar? a murderer?
I think the Law is the deepest subject in the Bible and I have heard so much confusion over it all my Christian life simply because of mixing the laws as you have done.

BBob

 

I have heard that the Arab Nomads have a saying...

What do you have in your tent if a camel sticks his nose under the tent flap?

Answer: The Whole Camel!

Somewhat similar to "in for a penny in for a pound."

As soon as you start adding "Have To's" to God's Gracious Act of Salvation through the Sacrifice of Christ you run the risk of occulting the fact that **NOTHING** we can do can merit that Grace, earn that Grace or keep that Grace...

Once you add the Ten Commandments as required then you have to add a ton of explanations as to how to obey them and what they mean...

I gurantee that we don't agree on the exact meaning of many of the Ten Commandments...

A lot of the ceremonial Law came out of this need for elucidation...

And, many of the dietary laws still hold as good references even today with all our improved husbandry...

So, no I don't think that you can, as a human, maintain any difference between the Ten Commandments and the entire Judaic Legal Code...

That is why it is important to walk in the Spirit so that you can keep God's Intent in the Law not some human explanation of it...

This will be because of "Want To" from the inner man... Not "Have To" from some religious legal code...

Mike Sr.

 

No where in the NT including the teaching of Jesus did he advocate the ceremonial law but He indeed did teach the Ten Commandments and the day that we are not supposed to teach what Jesus taught is the day of darkness. As far as being a good reference in some cases but in most no. Why do you suppose Jesus, Paul spent so much time in teaching the Ten Commandments and not the ceremonial?

The whole camel? That is where you err for there are at least 3 camels and Jesus, Paul and I only spend our time on the Ten Commandment camel.