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KenH's New Original Ron Paul for President Thread

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by KenH, Dec 18, 2007.

  1. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    He's saying that we've been meddling in other nations affairs for so long that our actions abroad cause "blowback". The same thing the "commision report" and our intell agencies have said.

    If you mess around in your neighbors yard telling him how to live and destroying his things long enough your neighbor may just get upset and mess around in your yard and destroy things. It's like the bully on the block that goes around giving out bloody noses all the time yet is dumbfounded and surprised when someone has had enough and decides to give him one in return.
     
    #81 poncho, Dec 31, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2007
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    My question was not about whether Paul legitimized their reasoning. But it seems hard to say that "They did it because we were over there" and say, "But it's not our fault."

    Paul may well be right, but he seems to be treading a pretty fine line there. I don't think saying "They did it because we were over there first" is legitimizing their reasoning. But it certainly seems hard to not call it blaming.
     
  3. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    So are you or Paul saying you think it is America's fault that we were attacked on 9/11?
     
  4. Petra-O IX

    Petra-O IX Active Member

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    Well maybe Ron Paul is a little to complicated for you to understand Pastor Larry, I think the trick is not to interpret what you would like Ron Paul to say but to actually distinguish what he has actually said.
     
  5. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    I highly doubt that.

    BTW, if you are going to try to make a smartaleck cut down of someone else's intelligence, then at least spell things right or use the right word, whichever the case may have been.

    That's what I am trying to do. That's why I am asking about what he said.

    So feel free to offer an explanation: Do you think Paul is blaming America for 9/11? If not, then why does he seem to say if we hadn't been there, it would not have happened?
     
  6. Petra-O IX

    Petra-O IX Active Member

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    No Ron Paul is not blamming America.
    I believe it is true that if we hadn't been over there 911 would not have happened. Why does this seem so complicated to you? I believe Poncho has explained this more than adequately enough.
     
  7. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    :laugh:

    Paul isn't hard to understand at all.

    In his efforts to legitimize his own isolationist agenda, he has to lay the blame for 911 on the United States and our "interventionist" foreign policy.

    Ergo: If we weren't "over there" , no one would have reason to attack us.

    Solution: Let our fear of being attacked guide our foreign policy.
    Disengage in the Middle East.

    I believe Paul has seriously misjudged what motivates Al Qaeda and their suicidal jihadists.
     
    #87 carpro, Dec 31, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2007
  8. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    I assume you mean blaming. So then why does he say if we hadn't been there it wouldn't have happened? Isn't that, at least to some degree, blame?

    It seems to me he is saying if we had done things differently, this wouldn't have happened. It seems legitimate to conclude that we must bear some of the blame for what happened. That doesn't legitimize their actions at all, IMO.

    I tend to agree. But I am not sure why, in your thinking and Paul's, that isn't blame, at least to some degree.

    Because Paul seems to be dodging the issue of blame. Why doesn't he simply say, "We have to accept some of the blame for our foreign policy decisions over the years"?

    I read very little of what Poncho writes. His explanations of things have, in the past, been less than satisfactory so I quit reading his posts for the most part.
     
  9. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich New Member

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  10. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich New Member

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    Paul inches closer to $20million goal.
     
  11. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich New Member

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  12. Ivon Denosovich

    Ivon Denosovich New Member

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    Former World Net Daily Commentary Editor Endorses Ron Paul here.
     
  13. Dagwood

    Dagwood New Member

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    What you believe about the facts should influence whether or not you agree with Ron Paul.

    I would submit that since Bin Laden said our presence in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim lands was a reason for attacking us, Ron Paul is only stating the obvious.
     
  14. Petra-O IX

    Petra-O IX Active Member

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    Ron Paul did not blame the U.S. for 911 and Carpro you have yet to prove that he has. Your wild assertions are not sufficient to rationalize that to be true.
     
  15. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    I don't have to prove it. Paul does it himself. If you wish to remain in denial, that's your privilege.
     
  16. Petra-O IX

    Petra-O IX Active Member

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    No Because we didn't do the dirty deed of flying planes into buildings.
    If we had done things differently 911 would not have happened. It is not legitmate to conclude that we must bear some of the blame because we do not understand the rationale of what Islamic extremest like Bin Laden thinks.
    Nah!!! I'm not going to repeat myself. Look above for that answer.

    Because that would be you putting words in his mouth. It's not about blame it's about understanding why these crazy Islamic extremest think as they do.

    I'm sorry you feel this way, though I don't know why you are so predjudiced against Poncho. Does Poncho frustrate you that much?
     
  17. Petra-O IX

    Petra-O IX Active Member

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    It's not that you don't have to prove it, it's because you can't prove it.:laugh: :laugh:
     
  18. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Well, of course. But the point of my question was to find out what Ron Paul believes so I can determine whether or not I agree with him.

    That assumes that Bin Laden is telling the truth. There are still some who believe Bin Laden didn't have anything to do with it.

    So the question is whether Ron Paul believes the facts or not.
     
  19. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    The question of blame is not about who did it, but rather about what was behind the decision making of those who did it.

    I think this is the kind of parsing that is illegitimate.

    First, you missed the question. My question was, "Why doesn't Paul say ..." I was curious as to why he says it the way he does. You didn't answer that. Second, the "why" is about blame. In trying to find out why people think the way they do, we are looking for reasons why they do things. That is typically called blame.

    Don't be. I'm not.

    I'm not prejudiced against him.

    Nope. He doesn't frustrate me at all. I don't even think about him.
     
  20. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    I really do not think Ron Paul should be of major concern to you Pastor Larry. No doubt, on the night of November 4th, we will all hear announced on every news outlet, "And Michigan's electoral votes are awarded to Hillary Clinton."
     
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