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KJV and the modern versions

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by antiaging, Oct 2, 2008.

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  1. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    It's both sad and weird.
     
    #361 Amy.G, Oct 24, 2008
  2. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:
    Ed Sutton, have you perhaps published a readily available book on any of your viewpoints? And if, how can I get it? (I hope the print is big.)
     
    #362 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Oct 24, 2008
  3. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: I wonder if he has added in any footnotes for the logically minded that could explain in clear detail, (in terms hopefully more in keeping with the scientific facts of gravity) how that dead believers in the grave, (at least north of the equator:laugh: ) could possibly be seen as falling out of their graves. :wavey:
     
    #363 Heavenly Pilgrim, Oct 25, 2008
  4. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    #364 Ed Edwards, Oct 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2008
  5. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    [FONT=&quot]CXXVIII. Mishnah-Tractate Shabbat 23:2

    [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Further Exegesis of “How are you you fallen from heaven, day star, son of the morning? How are you cut down to the ground, you who cast lots [the same word as occurs here] over the nations” (Isa. 14:12)[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]III.4 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]A. [“How are you you fallen from heaven, day star, son of the morning? How are you cut down to the ground, you who cast lots [the same word as occurs here] over the nations” (Isa. 14:12):] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Said Rabbah bar R. Huna, “This teaches that he cast lots over all the eminent men of the kingdom to find out which of them should be his mome for the day.”[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]B. And it is written, “All the kings of the nations, all of them sleep in glory” (Isa. 14:18).[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]C. Said R. Yohanan, “They got some rest from his sodomy.”[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]III.5 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]A. And said R. Yohanan, “Throughout the entire life of that wicked man, nobody ever laughed, as it is said, ‘The whole world is at rest and is quiet, they break[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]forth into singing’ (Isa. 14: 7), meaning, up to then there was no singing.”[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]III.6 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]A. And said R. Isaac said R. Yohanan, “One may not stand in that wicked man’s[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]palace: ‘And satyrs shall dance there’ (Isa. 14:21).”[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]III.7 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]A. And said R. Judah said Rab, “When that wicked man [Nebuchadnezzar] wanted to abuse that righteous one, Zedekiah, in such a way [in an act of sodomy], his penis stood erect for three hundred cubits and wagged in front of the whole assembly of captive kings, for it is said, ‘You are filled with shame for glory, drink you also, and be as one uncircumcised,’ and the numerical value of that last word is three hundred.”[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]III.8 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]A. And said R. Judah said Rab, “When that wicked man descended into Gehenna, all those who had come down there before him trembled, saying, ‘Does he come to rule over us or to be as weak as we are?’ ‘Also are you become weak as we? Or are you to rule over us?’ (Isa. 14:10). An echo came forth and said, ‘Whom do you surpass in beauty? go down and be you laid with the uncircumcised’ (Eze. 32:19).”[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]III.9 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]A. “How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased” (Isa. 14: 4) — B. Said R. Judah said Rab, “This nation has ceased that said [/FONT][FONT=&quot][150A][/FONT][FONT=&quot], ‘Measure out tribute and bring it to us.’”[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]C. Others say, “That demanded, ‘Bring more and more without measure.’”[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]III.10[/FONT][FONT=&quot]A. “And excellent greatness was added to me” (Dan. 4:36) — B. Said R. Judah said R. Jeremiah bar Abba, “This teaches that [Nebuchadnezzar] rode on a male lion, on the head of which he tied a snake as reins, in line with this verse: ‘And the beasts of the field also have I given him to serve him’ (Jer. 27: 6).”[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
     
    #365 gb93433, Oct 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2008
  6. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Apparently not.

    Ed
     
    #366 EdSutton, Oct 25, 2008
  7. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    Sorry Ed and Ed. I cannot edit the post it as it has been too long to do so. I was out of pocket for a while. Please forgive me. It was indeed an error on my part.
     
    #367 Heavenly Pilgrim, Oct 25, 2008
  8. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Was this post #365 really necessary, or even germane to the topic??

    Ed
     
    #368 EdSutton, Oct 25, 2008
  9. antiaging

    antiaging New Member

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    See what Dean Burgon had to say about the Hort Westcott text, which is very similar (almost identical) to the Nestle-Aland text which is used today for many new versions.
    See the evidence he presents against the vaticanus and sinaiticus manuscripts.
    Go to this website:
    Read down the page.
    The evidence that the byzantine majority text is the real new testament text, is very great. The evidence is against vaticanus and sinaiticus. --so the evidence is also against the nestle-aland and united bible society texts and the evidence is against the modern versions translated from them.

    http://www.deanburgonsociety.org/CriticalTexts/dbs2695.htm
     
    #369 antiaging, Oct 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2008
  10. antiaging

    antiaging New Member

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    Here, I'll refer to something else about ancient manuscripts.
    See what Dean Burgon had to say about them.
    http://www.deanburgonsociety.org/CriticalTexts/dbs2695.htm
     
    #370 antiaging, Oct 25, 2008
  11. antiaging

    antiaging New Member

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    You are either mistaken about that or worse.

    I did not ever say such a silly thing as that.
    I said, I believe that the modern day ufos that men see and film are probably piloted by God's angels. Modern day ufos resemble the chariots of fire, wheel within a wheel, and cloudlike pilar seen by the prophets and Paul in the Bible.

    Noah's ark was a floating vessel made of wood, guided by God as it floated along. No propeller, no sail, possibly no rudder; none is mentioned.

    I'll mention this again; believe whatever you like.

    I speak on what I have seen evidence of.
     
    #371 antiaging, Oct 25, 2008
  12. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    If one uses the majority text method to substantiate a text makes about as much sense as saying that because the majority of the world are not Christians therefore Christianity is a false religion.
     
    #372 gb93433, Oct 25, 2008
  13. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    It was in response to another post which illustrated poor hermeneutics.
     
    #373 gb93433, Oct 25, 2008
  14. Darron Steele

    Darron Steele New Member

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    That is an article by D. A. Waite. It says so explicitly.

    Dean Burgon did not write that article.
     
    #374 Darron Steele, Oct 25, 2008
  15. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Even a precursor reading of that article would show any honest reader many quotes by Burgon. One could rightfully point to that article as one setting forth what Burgon had to say. What is your point DS??
     
    #375 Heavenly Pilgrim, Oct 26, 2008
  16. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: You fail to understand the rules invoked by many on this list, i.e., reason, logic and evidence is only allowed IF in fact it supports the texts used by modern versions. All other evidence and logic is simply irrelevant and only serves to support ancient myths, divide the Church, and lead others astray. ;)
     
    #376 Heavenly Pilgrim, Oct 26, 2008
  17. antiaging

    antiaging New Member

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    Read further down into the article.
    It is D. A. Waite commenting on what Dean Burgon and other scholars said.
    Several quotes by Dean Burgon are in the article.
     
    #377 antiaging, Oct 26, 2008
  18. antiaging

    antiaging New Member

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    divide the church and lead others astray

    There are people doing that, in these days of apostacy leading up to the reign of the antichrist.
    Destroying the faith in God's Word is a sure way of causing apostacy.

    Psalms 11:3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

    Galatians 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

    Martin Luther
    (1483-1546) (Lutheran)
    "We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist." (Aug. 18, 1520) Taken from "The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers," Vol. 2, pg. 121 by Froom.

    "Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt...I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy." Taken from "Institutes" by John Calvin.

    Thomas Cranmer
    (1489-1556) (Anglican)
    "Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons." (Referring to prophecies in Revelation and Daniel.) Taken from "Works" by Cranmer, Vol. 1, pp. 6-7.

    John Wesley
    (1703-1791) (Methodist)
    Speaking of the Papacy he said, "He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers...He it is...that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped...claiming the highest power, and highest honor...claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone." Taken from "Antichrist and His Ten Kingdoms" by John Wesley, pg. 110.

    Roger William
    (1603-1683) (First Baptist Pastor in America)
    He called the Pope "the pretended Vicar of Christ on earth, who sits as God over the Temple of God, exalting himself not only above all that is called God, but over the souls and consciences of all his vessals, yea over the Spirit of Christ, over the Holy Spirit, yea, and God himself...speaking against the God of heaven, thinking to changed times and laws: but he is the son of perdition (II Thess. 2)."

    You can add to those names these men that believed the same sort of thing.
    Wycliff, Tyndale, Sir Isaac Newton, Fox, Finney, Moody, Spurgeon.

    Robert Stewart--
    My investigations revealed that the joint UBS/Nestle-Aland Editorial
    Committee was presided over by the renowned Jesuit named Carlo Maria
    Martini, Cardinal Archbishop of Milan (the largest Roman Catholic
    diocese in the world), President of the Council of European Bishops,
    former Rector of the Pontifical Biblical Institute, "Rector
    Magnificus" of the Gregorian University,
    the modern Bibles had deserted the traditional New Testament text of
    the Greek speaking churches and had, instead, introduced rare and
    peculiar readings of a handful of obscure manuscripts, primarily (but
    not exclusively) Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus.

    These minority readings, chosen from various sources, had been
    introduced into the modern UBS/Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament text
    under the supervision of the most prominent Roman Catholic Greek
    Scholar in the world.

    Do you happen to see conspiracy by the antichrist system in the introduction of the modern versions. I surely see it.

    Summary:
    It seems like they want people to turn away from God's true Word and start obeying Rome.
     
    #378 antiaging, Oct 26, 2008
  19. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    I have a few of Dean's books and found that he wrote against W/H's interests.
     
    #379 Askjo, Oct 26, 2008
  20. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    All I can say is "Agree!"
     
    #380 Askjo, Oct 26, 2008
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