Latest poll shows growing support for aspect of Iraq war policy

Shed American blood is a precious thing to me. It speaks of the highest of bravery and deserving nothing less than our full admiration and thanks.

These troops deserve the best of leadership. They deserve leadership that is honest, able to execute a war to win, moral, able to govern the nation, and tell the American people the truth. There is no evidence of that to be seen.

What do you expect from an administration that sends our border patrol agents to jail while not doing one thing to protect our borders? If you cannot protect our nation, how on earth can you win a war?

 

What you are saying is that you don't want it to work.

Would that provide you with some sort of personal vindication for being "right"?

That's a petty way of looking at things, I believe.

The poll doesn't reveal near as much about what people think as your reaction to it does.

 

We needed lots more troops at the start so the current mess could have been avoided. It's too late now. The civil war among the Iraqis is too entrenched now for a military solution.

And I read just fine, Pastor Larry. As usual you refuse to own up to what you have written.

 

These United States won the conflict in Iraq years ago and Iraq already has a representative democracy.

The only reasons I can think of that people such as President Bush and his warmongering supporters refuse to recognize the facts is that either they truly love war and/or they truly want to achieve American hegemony in the Middle East.

 

Actually, I do want it to work. But my wants are irrelevant. Facts are facts. The surge will not bring political stability to Iraq as that cannot be brought about by military force - unless our government decides to side totally with the Shiites and engage in a campaign to wipe out all of the Sunnis in Iraq. Is that what you want, carpro?

I don't.

But then after all of the Sunnis were wiped out then the various Shiite factions would turn on each other and our government would have to side totally with one of the Shiite factions and engage in a campaign to wipe out all of the other Shiite factions in Iraq. Is that what you want, carpro?

I don't.

 

That's convenient. What you were sayign a few months ago, as I recall, was that the surge wasn't big enough to make a difference. Now you are saying it is too late. At least nothing changes with you Ken ... You are constantly changing your position to argue against whatever you want to argue against.

Apparently you don't read "just fine" in terms of comprehension since you mistook what I said for something else, especially after I explained it. I always own up to what I have written. I don't always own up to how other people misunderstand it.

 

I didn't know I was required to stipulate 100% of the reasons for my position at my first mention of it or that I couldn't arrive at additional reasons for my position subsequent to my first mention of it.

 

I think that Kissinger had it right. To paraphrase (since I can't find the quote quickly and don't desire to spend a long time llooking):

To continue fighting in Iraq will be disastrous.

To pull out will be far more disastrous.

 

Which is a very, very good reason to have never gone into Iraq in the first place.

The Bush administration and the Congress(who gave him the authority to declare war on his own) have totally botched this whole thing.

 

Your posts indicate otherwise.

Get off the fence, Ken.

 

I'm not sure that that would not have ended up in the "more disastrous" category, but it's all simply opinion, since we did go to Iraq.

However, being the cynical person that I am, I think the NYT is playing up our success there to simply bolster Hillary, should she win. She wanted to go there, and if she's president, they will want it to look as good as possible. Never mind that they've been burying the good stuff going on there for years.

 

Iraq was no threat to these United States and he was a counterweight to Iran. Now the Bush administration wants to sell arms to the countries around Iran to create the counterweight that Saddam Hussein was.

 

What part of "I hope it will work but I don't think that it will" do you not understand?

 

And you believe that those who disagree with your position are ‘Warmongers’. No possibility that they have come to different conclusions based on a reasoned, principled, thoughtful process.

As for the political situation there, it is true that at the upper levels of the Iraq govt, little progress is being made. The real progress is percolating upward, with the various factions making deals with the US and Iraqi commanders on the ground. Need I point out that this is a good sign.

They are being realistic. They are making deals. They do not want to live under the harsh rule of the Taliban-style Salafists, and they are tired of all the killing.

Was it a mistake for US commanders to accept the aid of defeated tribes during the Indian wars? It was much better to have them at their side than fighting against them.

Yes, we needed more troops from the start, and we needed different tactics. Now we have them.

And btw, sectarian killings are down significantly.

Or maybe it’s because we want to see results that are acceptable to us and the Iraqis. To leave now would be like disassembling the engine on your neighbor’s Chevy, and then saying "Sorry, can’t fix it. Seeya, wouldn't wanna be ya".

 

You're not. But constantly changing your mind reveals a lack of settled conviction arrived at through thinking.

 

And being so inflexible that one is not able to change an opinion when he or she discovers that it is wrong reflects flawed judgement and thinking.

 

Well said.

 

True. I must concede that point.

 

Or it could just mean that as more information becomes available to him and is incorporated into an ever increasing well of subject knowledge he adjusts his postion and opinions as any thoughtful and reasonable person would do.

Not changing your mind in the face of overwhelming evidence that is contrary to your postion is being consistant for certain sure. Probably not very thoughtful and well reasoned but very consistant. Wonder what that reveals? :smilewinkgrin:

 

Of course.

It reveals why some people are conspiracy theorists.