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Featured Lazarus Come Forth!!!!!

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SheepWhisperer, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    John 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. ........................43And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. 44And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.


    Observe..
    Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall be made alive and then shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. No

    Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall be first regenerated and then shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Huh uh

    John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Right!

    Who "hears" the voice of the Lord? The dead.

    Psalm 29
    1
    {A Psalm of David.} Give unto the LORD, O ye mighty, give unto the LORD glory and strength.

    2Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name; worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.

    3The voice of the LORD is upon the waters: the God of glory thundereth: the LORD is upon many waters.

    4The voice of the LORD is powerful;

    the voice of the LORD is full of majesty.


    5The voice of the LORD breaketh the cedars; yea, the LORD breaketh the cedars of Lebanon.

    6He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.

    7The voice of the LORD divideth the flames of fire.

    8The voice of the LORD shaketh the wilderness; the LORD shaketh the wilderness of Kadesh.

    9The voice of the LORD maketh the hinds to calve, and discovereth the forests: and in his temple doth every one speak of his glory.

    10The LORD sitteth upon the flood; yea, the LORD sitteth King for ever.

    11The LORD will give strength unto his people; the LORD will bless his people with peace.

    It was the very same powerful, majestic voice of Psalm 29 that cried "let there be light", the same voice which cried "LAZARUS COME FORTH". That's how "the dead" "hear"


     
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Uh, you may want to actually read the scripture you posted.
     
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  3. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Yes sir, I read it.
    It says "the...dead...shall...hear".....the voice of the Son of God
    then it says "they that hear shall live".

    It means that Almighty God is able to speak to the dead, sir. That means the physically dead and the spiritually dead. And if you will "give ear" to Him: "hear his voice and harden not your heart", you will live. That's what it means.
     
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    <Sigh> I really don't know why I bother. Every time I show, from the bible, that you have a serious lack of understanding, you ignore my answer and start a new thread and just ignore everything that has already been explained to you.

    First of all, John 5 is NOT talking about Lazarus. Context is your friend. John 5 is talking about Christ's equality to the Father.

    Then in verse 24 He says, “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

    He is talking about the believer who ALREADY HAS eternal life.

    So, IN CONTEXT He then says "Most certainly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead will hear the Son of God’s voice; and those who hear will live."

    He is talking about the resurrection. When He says "the hour comes, and now is" He is making an "already/not yet" statement rather common regarding future events. He is saying that those who are born again are already "spiritually" resurrected ("now is" - see Ephesians 2:1 and Colossians 2:13), and yet a future physical resurrection still awaits them ("the hour is coming" - 1 Corinthians 15:35-54 and Philippians 3:20 & 21).

    So, those who have new life in Christ, the saved, will be the ones who hear the voice of God saying "come up hither." Even though the body is dead and in the grave, the spirit is alive in Christ and will hear the voice of God calling their bodies out of the grave.

    This is basic Sunday School stuff. I am rather puzzled about how you can be a pastor/teacher and not know these things. Where did you attend Seminary and what degree did you get? That information may help me to understand where you are coming from.
     
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  5. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Remember that your audience is larger than the one person you are having a dialog with. There are a lot of lurkers on the BB. They may never participate in the thread, but they are reading your posts nonetheless.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
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  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Chirp, Chirp.
     
  7. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Saturday, my wife and I babysit grandkids and pulled 3- 16' trailer-loads of coffee weeds, Sunday afternoon, after church, we worked sheep until dark, separating them into 3 flocks and turning in the rams. It's breeding time. Today I was routing a piece of deadhead cypress on my CNC, then had to install a street/stop sign on the way home, stopped and played with the grandkids for a few minutes, got home, hopped on the tractor and worked til after dark, fed the sheep, helped my wife doctor a sick sheep, I'm tired. Tomorrow, I have to cut four more jobs on the CNC, then feed the sheep again.. I will review and look up some scriptures as I get time and a clear head, :)


     
    #7 SheepWhisperer, Sep 19, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Was it Lazarus' free will that caused him to come out from that tomb or the Christ's divine, sovereign power to raise the dead to life?
     
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  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    He's too busy to answer. Well, he is not to busy to say how busy he is, but he's too busy to answer. :D
     
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  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I suspect it was through the power of the Spirit testifying that the Father had sent the Son as elsewhere Jesus stated that he did not do these things of his own accord but the Father who sent Him. Even here it seems logical to me to interpret the event less as a testimony of Christ's divine sovereignty and more a testimony that He was sent by the Father.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You missed the part of o them whom God has granted the ability to hear and respond to His voice!
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Only God though has the authority and power to raise the dead again, and also to heal, as Jesus stated to the unbelievers that the Father gave him authority to do both those things!
     
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  13. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Yes, I know that, and never said it was. I was showing you that the principle is the same: God's voice can be heard by the dead.


    Yes, and it is talking about Christ working on the Sabbath day and having the authority and power to "quicken".

    Yes, this is the verse you need to zero in on. This whole passage speaks about Christ's "having life in himself" and "quickening whom he will" etc. John 5:24 is speaking about "Passing from death unto life" from the moment one BELEIVES; NOT at the ressurrection

    No sir, the very second I believed on Jesus, I "passed from death unto life" RIGHT THEN.

    Sir, Just like God told Adam that he would "surely die" the Bible also says that sinners are "DEAD in trespasses and in sins. So, when this verse says "AND NOW IS", it meant that people, living people "dead in trespasses and in sins" were "passing from death unto life" as they heard the words of the Lord Jesus, BUT when it says "The hour cometh' it is speaking of the resurrection. BECAUSE it is Jesus Christ alone who has been given this authority and power.

    No sir, this context is not in the "prophetic perfect". jesus was already "quickening" people at that "now is" point in time.

    Now here you are contradicting yourself. You said that it was an "already/not yet" statement, but here you're saying the "now is" part is about being "spiritually resurrected". THIS statement of yours agrees with what I am trying to tell you: They were "spiritually resurrected" as you here admit, because they were DEAD in trespasses and sins. So, when people "dead in trespasses and sins" hear the "voice of the son of God" THROUGH the word of God, they are still spiritually dead and can only be "quickened" when they OBEY the voice of God by believing on His Son. That is when they ".Pass from death to life"


    I did not attend a "seminary"
     
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    SW,

    Why do some dead ppl hear God but others, not so much?
     
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    It shows. Your above "explanation" is about the very worst I have ever read. (And I have read some really stupid expositions.)
    No, I am not. Once again you display a remarkable inability to understand rather simple statements.

    Yes. Saved people, in this life, not yet in possession of their resurrected bodies are "spiritually resurrected." Our spirit is now alive in Christ, but are bodies are not yet resurrected. "Already" spiritually resurrected. "Not yet" physically resurrected.

    It couldn't be any clearer. A very simple statement that you, because of your failure to acknowledge that spiritually dead people are spiritually dead (they are just a little spiritually under the weather I guess) won't accept what Christ very clearly is saying.

    Your above "response" is why I said "I really don't know why I bother." :Rolleyes:Rolleyes
     
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  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Calvinist answer would be because God woke them up to be able to hear and respond to Jesus, while others would say that they willed themselves to do that.
     
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  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Yea heaven forbid someone disagree with you.
     
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Which part of Jesus's statement didn't you understand? That the saved are spiritually resurrected or that we don't have our resurrected bodies yet?
     
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  19. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Neither? He'll now 'poof'...
     
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  20. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Fellas, the job I have requires intense concentration and attention which doesn't come easily for me, and I have been working long hours.. If I make a mistake, I have to pay for it.
    Some of the threads I have started were because some were locked before I could answer.. Please leave this one open for a couple days and I will get back to you. Thanks very much
     
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