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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SheepWhisperer, Sep 18, 2017.

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  1. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Oh yes, I have certainly acknowledged and affirmed that lost sinners are spiritually dead. The Bible is very clear that lost sinners are dead. Eph 2:1
    And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

    And Jesus even stated that lost sinners are "dead".

    Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

    ...and, in the verse below, verse 24, Jesus even states that the spiritually dead "pass from death to life" by believing on the Lord


    24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    ...but then you deny that Jesus refers to the spiritually dead at all in the very next verse, verse 25 even though He conisdered them "dead"........

    25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

    The reason you don't like this, is because it refutes your fatalist Calvinistic beliefs and I get that. But I am done with you sir. Your mocking and scorning certainly don't show what a Christian should be all about: love. May God continue to work on your heart.
     
    #21 SheepWhisperer, Sep 25, 2017
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So now you are denying the promise of the physical resurrection? Or are you denying that the saved are spiritually resurrected now and will be physically resurrected at the culmination of the age?
     
    #22 TCassidy, Sep 25, 2017
  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps, as you further express yourself, and those with patience kindly respond, you will continue to be sharpened.

    Not everyone had either opportunity or was lead by the Lord to attend a seminary, and I'm not convinced that the training is actually learned, by some that did attend.

    Let me encourage you to look at ThomasC post to help in aligning your thinking. More often, the initial posts on a topic may become entrenched in the disput rather than developing Scriptural application sharpness and focus.

    It is my hope this thread will edifying, and challenge to grow.
     
    #23 agedman, Sep 26, 2017
  4. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    The fact that the dead do hear the voice of God does not disprove Calvinism or prove Calvinism.

    The dead being able to hear really is about the authority of God.

    Do you not recall the conversation between the dead rich man and God?

    God does what God does, irregardless of what humans consider dead.

    What limits human interaction by death, is no barrier to God.
     
    #24 agedman, Sep 26, 2017
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God causes the dead to hear, as they do not cause themselves to do that!
     
    #25 Yeshua1, Sep 26, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Both spiritual and physical hearing is by the sovereign pleasure of God.
     
    #26 agedman, Sep 26, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I think that someone should misapply Rev. 3:19 in this thread. It's long overdue.
     
    #27 thatbrian, Nov 20, 2017
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