1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

"Let him be accursed"

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Mark Osgatharp, Jul 3, 2003.

Top Posters
  1. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    In his letter to the churches of Galatia, Paul reproved them for forsaking the true gospel of the grace of God and embracing the Judaistic heresy. He warned them against receiving any other message than the one He had already preached to them in the strongest terms possible.

    He said that this other "gospel" was in reality only a perversion of the gospel of Christ. He warned that if he, an angle from heaven, or anyone else brought any other gospel to them to,

    "let him be accursed."

    I challenge anyone to demonstrate from the Scriptures that any individual or church in Galatia had:

    1. Denied the authority of the Scritpures.

    2. Denied the necessity of the new birth for salvation.

    3. Denied the necessity of faith in Christ for salvation.

    4. Denied the necessity of the sacrifice of Christ for salvation.

    5. Denied the virgin birth of Jesus Christ.

    6. Denied the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    I challenge any one to prove to me, from the Scriptures, that the Galatian heresy which Paul called a perversion of the gospel and upon whose messengers he pronounced a curse, consisted in anything other than requiring Gentile converts to Christianity to conform to Old Testament Jewish law in order to please God and be in fellowship with the church.

    If Paul called this heresy "another gospel" how much more might we call "another gospel" and its messengers messengers of Satan - as Paul called the messengers of Judaism in II Corinthians chapter 11 - that which:

    1. Says that the Bible is a book a Jewish myths.

    2. Says that man evolved from animals.

    3. Says that God required no sacrificial atonement for sin.

    4. Says that all men will be saved.

    5. Says that Abraham was self-deceived in thinking that God commanded him to offer up Isaac.

    6. Says that the whole Law of Moses was but a Semitic cultural tradition.

    7. Says that Christ was not born of a virgin or that whether or not He was born of a virgin is immaterial.

    8. Says that Christ did not raise bodily from the dead or that it is immaterial whether he did so or not.

    9. Says that sexual impurity is sexual cleaness.

    10. Says that men can be saved as well through Judaism, Islam, or Buddism as through Christ.

    11. Etc. etc. etc.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #1 Mark Osgatharp, Jul 3, 2003
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    30,285
    Likes Received:
    507
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree, Mark. We are talking there about folks who "claimed" to be Christian but were not. It was a FALSE Gospel of works - typical of that day and this. We've all seen it.

    So the biblical condemnation of "Let them be accursed" stands.
     
    #2 Dr. Bob, Jul 3, 2003
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    41,987
    Likes Received:
    1,485
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You might want to do some research on point number 4 "Says that all men will be saved"
    during the first 500 years of the New Testament church. Of the six major theological schools in the early centuries of the New Testament church, four of them taught universalism. As late as A.D. 400 Jerome says "most people" and Augustine "very many"(referring to Christians), believed in universalism.
     
    #3 KenH, Jul 3, 2003
  4. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob,

    Well at least you have acknowledged that not everyone who claims to be a Christian is. But you are wrong to say that the Galatians were not Christians because Paul said of them,

    "This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the spirit are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"

    This was not an issue of the new birth versus no new birth but an issue of maturity by faith versus maturity by the Law. The Galatians had truly begun in the Spirit. Paul could not have said it ay stronger than when he said to the Galatians,

    "Ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

    Again, the issue was not their salvation, but their walk with the Lord. Therefore I contend that when a man preaches some other way of life than that prescribed in the true gospel of Christ he has, to that extent, preached another gospel, whether he preaches the new birth or not.

    On top of that, I think it is the heigth of ignorance an naivety to think that just because a man says "I' believe in Geezuz" that that necessarily makes it so.

    Remember Jimmy Carter? He ran for president as a "born again Christian" and a Baptist. And yet if you would read his books about his "faith" you would find that he says "I am being born again." You would also find that his whole concept of "faith" in contrary to and subversive of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    And Jimmy Carter is a good representative of the "other" sort of Baptist I have portrayed here.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #4 Mark Osgatharp, Jul 3, 2003
  5. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    KenH,

    All that goes to prove is the truth of the words of the apostle John:

    "Even now are there many anti-christs."

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #5 Mark Osgatharp, Jul 3, 2003
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    30,285
    Likes Received:
    507
    Faith:
    Baptist
    SOME of the Galatians were truly born again. OTHERS were not. Kinda like us Baptists today!

    Those that left the faith (or more properly - evidenced that they never really had the faith) were accursed. These were certainly NOT the truly born again (since Christ already bore the curse for us! Hallelujah.)

     
    #6 Dr. Bob, Jul 3, 2003
  7. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob,

    Paul said,

    "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you INTO THE GRACE OF CHRIST unto another gospel."

    Will you still contend that all who had embraced the "another gospel" were not believers?

    "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you that ye should not OBEY THE TRUTH, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirt by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?"

    The issue was not at all whether or not these people had faith - they did have faith; but they were not currently OBEYING THE TRUTH that Paul had set forth among them.

    Paul said,

    "Though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

    Will you contend that if Paul had embraced the Galatian heresy it would prove that he wasn't saved? It would be much easier to conclude "falling from grace" from Galatians than it would be to conclude that those who embraced the Galatian heresy were never saved.

    My point: "let him be accursed" does not mean "let him go to hell." It simply means that we are not to embrace the fellowship of any man - however saved he might be - if he starts preaching an unbiblical message.

    And of course, there is still the fact that there are multitudes professing some "new birth" or "faith" experience who, unlike the Galatians, are strangers to Christ and His grace.

    Yes, Dr. Bob, the circle of respectable Christian fellowship is much narrower than some would like to think.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #7 Mark Osgatharp, Jul 3, 2003
  8. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    When I was born, I was a Baptist. When I got born again, I stayed Baptist, by choice. The difference that when I was born the first time I was not saved, when I was born again I was saved.

    It was not a matter of denomination, it was a matter of salvation.
     
    #8 Jailminister, Jul 3, 2003
  9. Sola-Scriptura

    Sola-Scriptura New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2003
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    This shows how crucial it is to preach Christ and justification by grace through faith and not drive the sheep back to the Law for sanctification afterward. The Law will always drive men to the Gospel, the Gospel will never drive men back to the Law! Woe to shepherds who make the Law become the Gospel. Preach the Law to Christians as a valid covenant and watch sin increase because that is naturally what the Law was meant to do. Preach Christ as our all in all and watch the Saints flourish under grace.
    1 Corinthians 1:30
    But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God--and righteousness and sanctification and redemption--
     
    #9 Sola-Scriptura, Jul 3, 2003
  10. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sola-Scriptura,

    Amen! He is my All in All. I can't even walk unless He holds my hand!

    Mark Osgatharp
     
    #10 Mark Osgatharp, Jul 3, 2003
  11. Harald

    Harald New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2001
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    0
    #11 Harald, Jul 3, 2003
  12. Major B

    Major B <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Around here, law is not much of a problem any more: license is. The idea is, that anyone can make a profession of faith, and they are considered saved and told they are saved, even if there is never a change of life. This is not only unbiblical, there is not a single verse in the Bible which even implies that a person with no change of life can be considered to be saved.

    True, there should never be a return to the Old Covenant Law for sanctification. Having said that, there is a reason why an entire book (1 John) is dedicated to a series of tests (including an obedience test) to see if salvation is genuine. There is a reason why James has so many practical instructions and imperatives (fancy word for commands). There is a reason wny Paul says we should examine ourselves (2 Cor 13:5). There is an ethical component to the New Covenant which is not weaker than the Old Covenant, it is stronger; the standard for behavior is not weaker in the New Covenant, it is far stronger. We all love Eph 2:8-9, but let us remember the UNQUOTED "rest of the story,"

    Eph 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

    The Old Covenant Law? Not for us. Man made laws? Not for us.

    The New Covenant? Over 1300 commands.

    John 14:15 ""If you love Me, keep My commandments."

    1 John 2:3-4 "Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

    1 John 3:22 "And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight."

    1 John 3:24 "Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."

    1 John 5:2-3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome."

    2 John 1:6 "This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it."

    Mat 28:19-20 ""Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen."
     
    #12 Major B, Jul 3, 2003
  13. Karen

    Karen Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2000
    Messages:
    2,610
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear Major B,
    I guess we all hear each other's statements against our own backgrounds. What you say is true,
    but too often, we add "change of life visible to us, right away". I became a Christian when I was 11 years old. My life was indeed changed. But I don't know that you, looking before and after, could have told that.

    Karen
     
    #13 Karen, Jul 3, 2003
  14. Major B

    Major B <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear Major B,
    I guess we all hear each other's statements against our own backgrounds. What you say is true,
    but too often, we add "change of life visible to us, right away". I became a Christian when I was 11 years old. My life was indeed changed. But I don't know that you, looking before and after, could have told that.

    Karen [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Unless it becomes a Mat 18:15-20 or 1 Cor 5 situation, it isn't my job to tell about your change of life--it's yours. My job is to keep track on mine.
     
    #14 Major B, Jul 3, 2003
  15. Tim

    Tim New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2001
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    0
    Quote from MajorB:"Around here, law is not much of a problem any more: license is."

    MajorB--I find this statement hard to believe. Legalism and License is Satan's most effective one-two punch. Those he can't hit with one, he hits with the other. We should always be on the lookout for both lest we get blindsided!

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
    #15 Tim, Jul 3, 2003
  16. Major B

    Major B <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree, and I am sure that in some circles around here (Campbellite), law is big problem. However, the biggest problem is nominal Christianity brought on by a selective understanding of saving Grace.

    Being from the Great White North, you might have trouble relating. EVERYONE around here (maybe slightly overstated) is saved, just ask them. "Oh yeah, I went forward during vacation Bible school back in '64." This is the buckle on the Bible Belt, and very few people are not on someone's church roll. However, most show no evidence of salvation. In a population of 33,000, our county has around 16,000 Baptists. we never see more than a county-wide total of 6,000 or so in worship, however, and many we never see. The other denominations have a similar problem.

    [ July 03, 2003, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: Major B ]
     
    #16 Major B, Jul 3, 2003
  17. Tim

    Tim New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2001
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can agree with that. Of the two, license is a lot more attractive to most people. But legalism is sneakier.

    Tim
     
    #17 Tim, Jul 3, 2003
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Loading...