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Let there be light.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by bruren777, Jul 13, 2005.

  1. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    What I meant is that this is a good translation of the Hebrew, that is, it says in English what the Hebrew text indicates. The expanse is the "sky" that birds fly in.
     
  2. garpier

    garpier New Member

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    Sigh

    I guess I wasted my time studying the Hebrew language. Must be Moses either didn't know what he said when he said the birds fly in the face of the firmament or he was completely wrong. Too bad he couldn't have had the NIV to straighten him out. [​IMG]
     
  3. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Yeah, why didn't he just write it all in English in the first place! :D
     
  4. bruren777

    bruren777 New Member

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  5. bruren777

    bruren777 New Member

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    Ok, it was me who started this discussion and I've pondered it for sometime now. I spoke to a pastor, he thinks it's the same event. I don't think it is, scripture say's it seperated light from darkness. I think it part of God as He is Light, in fact it may be the Holy Spirit.

    I read a book by John Macarthur, he gave his explaination, I can't remember what it was and I can't remember which book of his that it was in. I have several books by him and have researched them and haven't found it yet.
     
  6. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    bruren777, I notice that the people you want to comment on you quote in one post, then respond in another. All you have to do after you've hit quote on what you want to quote, is go to the bottom of the last
     
  7. bruren777

    bruren777 New Member

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  8. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    Yes, wouldn't it be great if God had written the Bible in English for us! [​IMG]

    The context of the passage indicates that the expanse was "sky." This isn't reading into the text or abusing the Hebrew language. Genesis 1:6-8 is very specific. God separated the waters, creating an expanse between the waters that were ON THE EARTH! The expanse between these waters he called sky. He is not addressing "outer space."

    Genesis 1:9 indicates that the waters that were under the sky he gathered into one place so that dry ground would appear.

    Genesis 1:20 "fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven" (KJV). The expanse of the sky is Hebrew for saying "open skies." The birds are to fly above the earth in the open skies, not against the face of the raqia of the heavens.

    NASU - "fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens."

    We know that there are waters on the earth and waters in the atmosphere of the sky. The birds are said to fly above the waters on the earth, but it doesn't prohibit them from flying through or in or across the clouds (water) of the expanse of the sky.

    It isn't precise technological language, it is phenomenal language.

    From earth, I look up into the expanse of the sky and say that birds fly in that expanse above the waters on earth and in the expanse of the sky, even through water producing clouds.

    Perfectly understandable Hebrew.

    Birds fly in the open skies, above the water that is on the earth.
     
  9. garpier

    garpier New Member

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    And God placed the sun moon and stars in this sky according to your definitions. Sorry but that is not what the passage is saying. There are waters that are above the heavens according to Psalm 148:4. I wonder how they got there if not from God seperating the waters and stretching the firmament like a curtain.
    The expanse on day two (raqia) is equated with heavens (shamayim). On day four when they were made the sun moon and stars were put in the expanse, (firmanment) heaven.

    I know you like the word appoint for 'asa". Are you willing to use that definition in the rest of the context? If so then you have God appointing the firmament in verse 7, God appointing the beasts of the earth in verse 25 and appointing man in his image in verse 26. Then in verse 31 God saw everything that he appointed. You are willing to traslate "asa" to fit your idea where you think it fits. I am asking you to be consistent with your translation and hermenutic.

    Again in verse 20 read the Hebrew. It literally reads "in the face of the firmamnet" You can call it phenomenal language if you like, but I chose to take it literally. Otherwise we must conclude that neither Moses nor the Holy Spirit who inspired this passage was capable of saying what they meant.
     
  10. garpier

    garpier New Member

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    When KJVO's quote from the KJV they are often accused of being Ruckmanites. It is one reason why I prefer to argue from the original language rather than a translation.
     
  11. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    We must also remember that the authors of Gen1 only comprehended light as being visible brightness. Today, we understand that "light" is a huge bandwidth containing infrared and ultraviolet spectrums, as well as microwaves. This makes me thing that Gen1 is analagous to all energy and matter coming into being by God at once. I know, it's a bit big-bangish, but it complies with scripture.
     
  12. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    Context determines what "asa" means. When used with words like "govern" it is right to interpret it as "appoint." I don't think you appreciate the general nature of the word "asa." It is translated 72 different ways in the OT. The most common way is "did."

    God "did" the sun, moon, and stars! Well, in what way did God "do" the sun, moon and stars on day four. He "did" them in order to govern the day and night. From earth's perspective, he cleared the clouds and framed them in the sky for a specific task.

    Since you are quoting Psalms for support, what do you think of Job 38:4-9 which seems to indicate that at the foundation of the earth, the earth was wrapped in thick clouds producing the darkness described in Genesis 1:2. If this is the case, the "star" of our solar system could have been the source of light in Genesis 1:3.
     
  13. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    The only light a Hebrew reader would be thinking of is the light that comes from the sun during the day, and the light that comes from the moon and stars at night.

    When God called for light on day one, a Hebrew reader would understand this light to be the same light that he can see with his eyes. The light that was called day. This light comes from the sun. Therefore, a Hebrew would not make the mistake that we make concerning day four. He would know that "asa" didn't mean "made" but rather "appoint."
     
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