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Let's see SCRIPTURAL authority for popes, cardinals, etc.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by robycop3, Aug 10, 2019.

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  1. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    State the contradiction.
     
  2. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    Nowhere does the scripture say antichrist will not be religious. John says antichrists have gone out from us, that is the true church. Just as the bishops of Rome started out as true Christians, two were mentioned by Paul, Linus and Clement, then they began to add things to the bible. Hippolytus. departed from Rome at his time because the bishop of Rome added things to the worship. A number of centuries ago, Platina wrote a history of the popes at his time.He describes each as addhing something new.

    What makes you think the pope is religious? Superstitious? Yes. Religious? No.

    Popes have been murderers, aduterers, fathers of illegitimate childeren, poisoners, one even poisoned himself while trying to murder someone else. There was one who had concubines and that time was known as The rule of the Harlots.

    I think it was Leo X who said, "This myth of Jesus Christ has been very profitable to us."

    They seem to deny the subtituionary sacrifice af Christ, but believe that the qwork of men's hands can save them, that is a biscuit. How foolish !!

    In the town of Favernay, 70, in France, There is a claim that during a fire in the church, two hosts in their container floated above the altar and remained suspended in the air in front of the asgtonished congregation. That superstition is stll recounted foday and ib is the guide books including Michelin. This superstition aided the counter reformation in that area. One might suspect that it was staged to do just that.
     
  3. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    They didn't have buses in their day.
     
  4. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    God poured his wrath on Jesust so that all who repent of their sins and turn to Him for forgiveness would not have His wrath poured out on us.
    • 1 Thessalonians 5:9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
    If you don't turn to Christ alone for salvation, you will have to face the Judgement seat of Christ, His Great White Throne, alone, without a Saviour. The pope won't be there to help you then.
     
  5. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Oh I believe Jesus is our savior. I just don't believe the pagan idea of God pouring out his wrath on Jesus.

    I believe Jesus is a Christian, not a Calvinist.

    In short I don't believe God is evil. Or a spiritual nazi.


    Actually they did, Learn the word BUS if you want to be smart aleck.

    You could not deal with the scripture.
     
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    People really hate God with a passion if Calvin, Luther and Augustine were right about him. Churches are packed with idol worshipers every Sunday if they were right.
     
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  7. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Those lines do support THIS ...
    • "Yet by Christ’s testimony, God ordained the sadistic torture of His Son (which did occur and was foretold by the prophets)."
    However, the 600 pound gorilla in the room is the fact that you refused to address THIS ...
    • "Since God cannot have been ignorant of an event He foretold, was God IMPOTENT to prevent it or just sadistic for a reason other than His Holiness and Divine Justice?"

    (I am attempting to dialog on the actual issues rather than employ anti-Catholic name calling, but you are refusing to engage and simply avoiding the points raised.)
     
  8. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    It was also accepted for a LONG, LONG, TIME that the world was flat ... that doesn't make the world flat.

    The word of God (you have heard of God haven't you?) makes no mention of the passing down of Apostolic authority from Bishop to Bishop, and even if it did, there could be no more than 12 Bishops who received Apostolic authority (one for each Apostle).

    My "sect" is the one founded on the teachings of Matthew, Mark, Luke John, Paul, Peter and James, who built on the foundation of the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Old Testament ... you might want to abandon the 2000 years of human dross built upon the "God Breathed" scripture and rediscover the Church that Christ actually founded.
     
  9. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    On BISHOPS ...

    [1 Timothy 3:1-7 NASB] 1 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires [to do.] 2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 4 [He must be] one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6 [and] not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. 7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside [the church,] so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

    Why does “tradition” directly contradict Apostolic teaching?

    I have never met a Roman Catholic "Bishop" or "Priest" or "Cardinal" that was ...
    • the husband of one wife
    • one who manages his own household well
    • keeping his children under control with all dignity
    (that is why I UNDERLINED that part for you in the original post)

    Has the Catholic Churched changed its mind again on Priests being married (Peter and the other Apostles had wives according to Paul)?
    Do "Bishops" maintain households independent of the Church?
    How well behaved are YOUR Bishop's children?

    (PS. If you are going to answer with some drivel about the Church being the Bishop's "household" and the members his "children", then every Bishop and Cardinal that ever covered up a molestation is scripturally required to step down from the priesthood for failing to manage their "household" ... that includes most Bishops, Cardinals and the Pope.)

    Again, the serious question is ...

    Why does “tradition” directly contradict Apostolic teaching?
     
  10. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    "But in 1661 Pascal initiated a world first that has not been discredited: he conceived the world’s first bus service, proposing that a number of coaches should “circulate along predetermined routes in Paris at regular intervals regardless of the number of people,” and pick up passengers for a small fixed fare. The word bus is short for omnibus, which means “for everyone.” It was first used in this sense circa 1823, and referred to the fact that anyone could join the coach along its route, unlike stagecoaches, which had to be pre-booked."
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    IF God did not pour out his wrath upon Jesus for your sins, than He will pour it out n you on Judgement Day!
     
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Why would the first Pope be peter, as the Church recognized Paul as being his Equal, and James his spiritual head in Jerusalem church?
     
  13. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    According to Roman Catholicism, lord bishops act as lords over God's heritage or over the church.
    Non-scriptural Roman Catholic traditions conflict with and contradict scriptural truths.

    According to the Scriptures and according to the apostle Peter, bishops/elders are not to act as lords over God's heritage or the church (1 Peter 5:1-3).

    According to the Scriptures, bishops, elders, pastors are names for the same office or role in the church. It has not been demonstrated that the Scriptures teach that bishops have would authority over elders or pastors.

    Mark 10:44
    And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all

    Matthew 23:11
    But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant
     
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  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    "Tradition" isn't SCRIPTURE !

    Mark7:8
    For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”


    The RC hooey is nothing but the TRADITIONS OF MEN. While Jesus didn't mention the RCC garbage, which hadn't been invented yet, He was speaking against adding man's inventions to God's words & commands. The Pharisees had invented a bunch of garbage & added it to God's commands, & the RCC has done the EXACT SAME THING, only with different garbage. If you can't see that, I can't help you. Just know you're going against the express words of JESUS.
     
  15. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Paul preached a LOT more in Rome than Peter did !
     
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    We are STILL WAITING for SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT for the offices of pope or cardinal ! Without it, it's just a false tradition of MAN, condemned by JESUS in Mark 7:8.
     
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You need to take this to a Catholic forum and see how they handle it. You are pretty much preaching to the choir here.
     
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  18. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I kinda figured it would be this. So you saying required being married.

    They actually exists even today. And were common up to 1100.

    But lets start with some "drivel".......yeah thats not insulting....

    Lets start with the first bishop. Jesus Christ. He was celibate not married.

    “For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls” (v. 25).

    - 1 Peter 2:25

    You would deny Jesus Christ any point of authority. ST. PAUL who wrote that line you are citing was not married himself.

    BOTH are celibate. BOTH OF them tell us advantages celibacy.


    1 Corinthians 7

    32But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; 33but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, 34and his interests are divided.


    Paul would have said married to A wife, the ONE wife is instruction against polygamy. Paul also advises unmarried and widows to remain like himself.


    I hope next time you can google catholic "drivel" so you can actually cite our "drivel" not your own baptist "xenophobic" misrepresentation.

    Like google "Bishops must be husband of one Catholic Answers" And if you want the actual rule look up " catechism"
     
  19. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Reply to post 31.
     
  20. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    From your response, I am left to conclude that Paul lied to Timothy in his instructions for appointing "overseers" ... they must be celibate like Jesus and Paul were, and the Roman Catholic Church later decided all "overseers" must be. Forget about demonstrating the ability to manage their households. Forget about seeing how they manage their children.

    I'll stick with SCRIPTURE and pass on your scripture contradicting catechism.
     
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