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Let's see SCRIPTURAL authority for popes, cardinals, etc.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by robycop3, Aug 10, 2019.

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  1. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Thank you again for demonstrating your brilliant, sharp and intuitive and keen perceptive mind.

    Yes Google is my authority in matters of faith and practice, believe that. SMH.
     
  2. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    They call Satan the ACCUSER for a good reason, his entire foundation is pointing finger on someone else.



    Matthew 10

    24“A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. 25“It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign the members of his household!


    Jesus PROPHESIED, They call him beelzebul and prince of demons, And his household the church was going to be called WORST.


    No one calls Baptist Church the church of demons, no one calls Presbyterians the house of Satan, HO! but the Catholic Church, eveyone pointed their finger there. And they still call everyone else brothers and sisters. Something is backwards if they are suppose to be the bad guys.
     
  3. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    No, but with the Church's authority to "bind and loose" things, it is a perfectly acceptable discipline.
     
  4. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    We say the same about you folks.
     
  5. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    The Baptist sect was founded by a man named John Smythe, who himself was a former Church of England minister. He was a renegade of the renegades - even they didn't go far enough according to him!
     
  6. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    Let each (Christian denomination) who is without sin cast the first stone.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That would be akin to naming the day of the second coming!
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Individuals were given that authority, but not any Church!
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That would exlude the RCC, as not a Christian denomination!
     
  10. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    The CHURCH, says the individuals and Jesus Christ.

    I'm giving you straight scripture its authority of the church.

    Think about it if the INDIVIDUAL was the highest authority.......why even take it to the church and not just let the individual handle it alone?

    Quit being enemies with scripture wishing it to say something else.

    Mathew 18

    15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

    This whole passage he uses the word "YOU"
     
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Duhhh...
    Your church says PETER was 1st pope, while 1 Cor. was written by PAUL. Also, Paul spent mucho time in Rome while Peter didn't. Paul, not Peter, established the first Christan congregation in Rome. Seems Paul was more-qualified to have been pope. So, was your church wrong ????????????????


    This has been explained once, but I'll let someone do it who can word it much-better than I.
    John 20:23 appears to give the ability to forgive sins to Christians. How do you explain this? | Evidence for Christianity


    Ya mean, SELECTIVE bible believers ! You seemta only believe the parts that agree with your RC hooey. The RCs' system of beliefs: 1.) RC doctrines, 2.) Scripture.
     
  12. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Thats right we are the CHRISTIAN CHURCH. We are not a split. ALL your teachers were Catholic.

    The first Baptist, was ANGLICAN. The FIRST ANGLICAN was CATHOLIC. The FIRST CATHOLIC is JESUS CHRIST.
     
  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    And NOWHERE is "apostolic succession" established !
     
  14. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Ill do a post for each of your points.

    "This has been explained once, but I'll let someone do it who can word it much-better than I."

    He certainly does word it better. DR JOHN OAKES, I like this guy.


    Let me quote your link:

    "I wish I could tell you exactly what this passage means, but I believe that we can get a general understanding of John 20:23. God is giving real delegated authority to the church and, specifically, to the leaders of the local churches. As disciples of Jesus, we need to respect and submit to that authority, as God delegates authority to these people. As is written in Hebrews 13:17, we should obey our leaders and submit to their authority as men who will give an account to God for their leadership. I believe that this, or something like this, is what Jesus has in mind in John 20:23."

    This is how he breaks it all down in summary.^


    " He was about to leave, and he was delegating to them authority to make some authoritative decision for the church. An example of the application of this authority is found in Acts when the Council of Jerusalem made authoritative decision for the Gentile Christians scattered across areas where Paul had planted churches. "

    DOES THIS SOUND FAMILIAR?

    Common Roby......He is saying the exact same thing I'm saying.


    The difference is his ancestors broke those rules, cut and ran.

    I like this guy. He's trying to bring it all back together. His heart is in the right place.
     
  15. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    DR. JOHN OAKES:

    "In any case, the Roman Catholic Church traces its beginning back to the original church which was established at Pentecost in AD 30. Christians started the church in Rome almost certainly by AD 50. Paul visited the well-established church in AD 63. The Roman Catholic Church can trace its roots all the way back to the original Christian church in Rome.

    This fact may be confusing to you, because you are probably aware that the Roman Catholic Church today is very far from holding to biblical Christianity, with its popes, vestments, sacraments, incense, celibate priests, nuns, church calendar and much more. The Roman Catholic Church is clearly a very corrputed version of Christianity. Nevertheless, it is a historical fact that the church in Rome can literally trace its roots in a more or less uninterrupted line to the time of the apostles. Of course, Catholics, like Orthodox Christians, are very proud of their historical roots. My suggestion is that you not argue with this claim because it is true. "

    He doesn't defend Catholic faith. But this guy seems HONEST, even tho mistaken.

    Full context : When was the Roman Catholic Church started and is there proof that Peter was the founder of the church in Rome and the first pope? | Evidence for Christianity


    2 timothy 3

    13But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them,



    There is always a lineage straight to Jesus Christ. Roby you learned form a guy who learned from another guy who learned from another guy, who learned from a ANGLICAN, who learned from another ANGLICAN, who learned from a CATHOLIC.

    All these guys can read one line in the bible have seperate understanding of the same verse. How do we know which is the AUTHENTIC UNDERSTANDING?

    These things have always been passed down KNOWING FROM WHOM YOU HAVE LEARNED THEM.


    If there is a teaching I don't agree with my church......I correct my church. If my church says nope,,,,I'm in the wrong. What is my option? Leave start my own thing? absolutely not. I don't give up. I GOT GOD on my side. Pray.....and TRUST GOD, This is actual FAITH IN GOD. the REAL FAITH ALONE. I don't say oh God's church is awful better start a new one for him.

    Titles don't matter. Position doesn't matter. You can be the Janitor of your church, IF GOD has your back, no one can stop you.

    What I don't do is vilify everyone, slap the face of my imperfect parents, and say I'm going to do a better job.

    As rule If you are going to leave a denomination leave it better then the way you found it.
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Church founded by Jesus Christ was and is not the Church of Rome!
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Lord Jesus was and is God Incarnate, NOT a Catholic, nor a Baptist, nor any other label!
    And the first Christians would have been much closer to being Baptists than Catholics!
     
  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Still, NO AUTHORIZATION for "apostolic succession" !

    Please remember, Utilyan, this is JUST THE BEGINNING ! I'll inquire about quite a few other RC practices & doctrines before we're through. Obviously, you CANNOT provide any Scriptural support for the offices of pope or cardinal, even if we were to let you have Paul as a pope, & neither can any of your RC buddies here. (Obviously, it wasn't Peter; he was married & didn't spend much time in Rome.) There's simply NO Scripture in any valid Bibles that authorize "apostolic succession". Therefore, it's false and believing it is apostasy, according to Mark 7:8.
     
    #98 robycop3, Aug 16, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  19. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    2 timothy 2:2

    . 2The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.


    Here we got 3 generations biblical confirmed to be taught ORALLY. You got PAUL, TIMOTHY and WHO TIMOTHY TEACHES.




    You have this fantasy idea that after the very last verse of the bible all the apostles up and zipped to heaven.

    John was still around for generation of bishop to show up.



    “Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry” (Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 [A.D. 80]). Clement I


    Now you might hear ABOUT CLEMENT in scripture

    Philippians 4

    3Indeed, true companion, I ask you also to help these women who have shared my struggle in the cause of the gospel, together with Clement also and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

    But just because Clement wrote stuff doesn't make his stuff holy scripture. It also doesn't make it false.

    The early church fathers all doing catholic stuff and saying catholic things.

    Even your buddy DR OAKS says WE got the lineage to JESUS CHRIST.
     
  20. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    Not cool. I suppose then that all the Letters to the churches are for your crew only ? I am excluding the Orthodox from them too because I am sure you feel the same way about them, being closely related to the RCC in many theology doctrines and all.

    So as I said , all the Letter's to the Churches must be for you and your crew. That makes you all in a heap of trouble. I mean according to your opinion then, it would seem that you should know better and have gotten all things right by now. And since one of the Queens well was never part of Christ and is a Cult according to you, that would make them cold.

    You know " I would rather that you were cold or hot , but because you are lukewarm I am about to spew you from My mouth".
    Cold means you never knew Christ or accepted Him and HOT means you are on fire with the Holy Spirit and Lukewarm, well...... worse than being cold, because you know Christ and the truth and choose to be a back slider and have a little bit of this and that of the world, and heavenly things when convenient . That kind of person , people church = condition makes Him sick! Once He spews you out you are done!

    So, like I said according to your opinion the Catholics are not Christian to be begin with so they must be COLD and better off than you. Not to mention all the other Letters that spell trouble for SIN ,that must be shed.


    Wow! I read those Letter's and get them . I have been here for your crew only, all along.:Roflmao I mean according to your view. So I do not need to admonish anyone , of the Catholic denomination ( I mean cult). Because after all the letters are for the Churches not cults.
    C'est la vie. I guess I will continue with all of the Protestants then and all their sects. :Wink
     
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