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Let's talk about Ellen White - SDA prophet

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by targus, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    This is so sad. Why Bob? I don't understand why you would believe such fullishness. You present yourself as having great wisdom of the bible and it's teachings, and yet you let yourself believe in a person who said some absolute crazy babel.

    Was it a childhood doctrination? It is very difficult to objectively view a person's teachings if you have been indoctrinated from youth that what they said is to be accepted as being from God.

    We have an ex-JW that received Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour about eight years ago and she gave testimony of how difficult it was to shake those false teachings that were pounded into her mind for all those years before. She practiced in the cult for about twenty years before God's grace broke through to her.

    :jesus:
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Daniel states that in his case - in vision "there was no breath left in me" Dan 10:17.

    I accept that Daniel had visions from God - even though he describes that particular effect.

    Though "I suppose" I could compare him to ex-JWs as some kind of exercise.

    The objective unbiased reader will "notice" the Bible evidence for spiritual gifts --

    That same reader will notice that many responses to that Bible based position listed here so far are of the form "yes but I am not used to seeing that in real life".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #42 BobRyan, Feb 6, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2010
  3. targus

    targus New Member

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    And you interpret "there was no breath left in me" as meaning "cease to breathe - sometimes for more than an hour"?

    And it doesn't dawn on you that the creator of this "Ellen White can hold her breath for a really really long time" fairytale maybe could have just possibly read Daniel's statement before making up this nonesense about Ellen White?

    Seriously, think about it.
     
  4. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Yes, and when Ellen White's "prophecies" are tested against Scripture, they fail, misreably.


    Yes, they do. I provided the source. White did teach this.


    Yes, to investigate the actions of believers to see if they merit salvation.

    There is no biblical support for this. Christ's atonement was "once for all" and He "sat down," as it states in several places, especially in Hebrews.

    You know that this date came out of the failed prophecy of William Miller. This is just part of factual history. No matter how you slice and dice it, the SDA teachings are what they are, though the SDA often tries to hide some of what they do teach.
     
  5. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    A simple question... and yet it has been danced around and around by our resident SDA advocate.

    How about a straight answer, Bob? Nothing fancy, nothing eleborate. A simple, straight answer that squares with the bible itself. So far you have made sure to deflect the question and focus on somehting, anything, else.

    As for the SDA "Fundamental Beliefs, it all sounds fairy square down to "The Gift od Profecy" where Ms. white is mentioned by name... "One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested."

    Then comes the part about living the Law. Seems that a lot of the New Testament had soemthing to say about those who wanted to put the yoke of the Law on those who came to Christ...
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    I for one am very glad when Targus gets the easy part.

    Bravo!

    The point being that her visions do indicate a supernatural element.

    However this agreement with Dan 10:17 is not even remotely why SDAs accept her or anyone else's claims to having the gift of prophecy. It merely shows that there is a supernatural aspect to the gift.

    The "test" for a prophet continues to be the Bible tests as given in both OT and NT. For example Is 8:20 "To the Law and to the Testimony if they speak not according to this word they have no light".

    Thus for Adventists it is the doctrinal test that must be passed EVEN if the prophet happens to have public visions and numerous witnesses to the effects being in line with Dan 10:17.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Indeed - Paul says "Do we then abolish the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we Establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31

    In Rom 2 Paul says "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God - but the DOERS of the Law WILL BE justified" Rom 2:11-13

    In 1Cor 7:19 Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

    In John 14:15 - Christ Himself says PRECROSS -- "IF you love Me KEEP My commandments"

    Everyone agrees that Christ is not saying to the lost "perfectly keep my Commands so you can be a Christian" -- rather it is only the saved born again 2Cor 5 "New Creation" that Christ and Paul are speaking to - regarding this aspect of perseverance instead of rebellion against God.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    Try using some context for your proof texts, Bob.

    The law being spoken of in Romans 3:31 is not the Mosaic Law, but rather the law of faith.
    Romans 2:11-13 is a part of Paul's line of thought running up to and through 3:27-31. Paul is showing that the Jew, under the Law, is answerable to the Law, while the gentile is answerable to the law written on his heart; both stand condemned. Paul continues his train of thought through the upholding of the Law and how works are of no benefit against faith. Pulling a single verse out of the whole discourse radically changes what Paul was saying, and I would have thought better of you than that.

    1 Cor 7:19 concerns Paul treatment of the condition/position of the person before he was saved. This has nothing to say about a person keeping the Law to be saved; it speaks of remaing as you are when you were saved. If you are circumcised, remain so; if uncircumsized, stay that way. It says nothing about observing the law for salvation.
    Jesus, speaking in John 14:15, was not referring to the Law of Moses. He was speaking of what He had told His discpiles. And what had He told them. Back up just before your quote:
    Your statement about 2 Cor 5:17 et al makes no sense, especially in the way you presented it. The only way to be "saved born again" is to keep the Law? That's a huge stretch, mate, and there is nothing in the text to support that.
     
    #48 Trotter, Feb 7, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2010
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Wrong.

    Romans 7 quotes from the Law -- same book same author - it is the Law as found in what Paul called "scripture".

    This is really the easy part.


    In Romans 2 Paul is very explicit about "the Jew first AND ALSO the Gentile" -- all just "inconvenient details" for those who reject what Paul is saying there.

    In Romans 2 Paul says that the gentiles do not actually have the written law AND YET in Romans 2 some of them show that Law written on the heart - which in Romans 2 - Paul says is a work that is done by the Holy Spirit "circumcision is of the heart - by the Holy Spirit".

    The details found in careful exegesis of the chapter do not support your hopeful assertions my friend.


    As noted Paul stated in 1Cor 7 (consistent with Romans 2:11-13 and Rom 3:31 and Romans 7 ) "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" - thus his teaching was also consistent with the pre-cross teaching of Christ - "If you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" and is also consistent with Eph 6:1-2 saying that the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" (which is true ONLY if you are looking at the unit of what scripture calls "the TEN Commandments")

    There is no such thing as having the lost person "obey the law until they become saved" -- as it turns out.

    The point of obedience is for the SAVED person -- as I have been stating.

    And as Romans 2 points out - if that saved person chooses to rebel against the Law of God they will NOT remain saved. In fact Romans 11 is clear "YOU stand only by your faith ... you should FEAR for if God did not spare the unbelieving Jews NEITHER will He spare you" (should you choose rebellion against God)

    In Matt 5 Christ said "DO NOT think that I have come to change THE LAW" Christ never argued "pay no attention to scripture from now on".

    In Gal 4 Paul says that Christ was "born under the law" and perfectly obeyed it.

    In Matt 5 Paul says that the one who TEACHES others to ignore or disregard even the LEAST part of the Law of God would be called LEAST in heaven.


    Thus there is no basis at all for the arguments of the form "Christ taught His disciples to ignore the Word of God"

    to support that assertion you need a point that holds up to close review in scripture.

    Still waiting...


    Yes that is what I said Christ was NOT arguing.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #49 BobRyan, Feb 8, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2010
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The quote is from the book "the Great Controversy" page 605

    It is a prediction that Sabbath will become a highly contested point across all nations of the earth at some future point in time. If that event does not happen - - then the prediction is wrong.

    That is the easy part.

    Here is the text

     
    #50 BobRyan, Feb 8, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2010
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Now for the actual facts.

    1. She wrote about the existence of the shut door event - as a historical reference but never claimed that God showed her that it was correct. She reports the historic fact that at one time she believed that there were no more people to be saved outside of the Millerites - but never wrote in favor of that view.

    2. Neither did she ever write in favor of the shut door doctrine (defined as no more evangelism) in any way promoting it as her own view or as the view of God.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Anyone can investigate the writings of Ellen White to see how unbiblical they are.

    See
    http://www.nonsda.org/study8.shtml

    and

    http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/

    and

    http://members.tripod.com/~Help_for_SDAs/FactsSDAsWontTellYou.htm


    They do teach that those worshiping on Sunday when Jesus returns have or will receive the mark of the Beast.

    http://www.bible.ca/7-mark-beast.htm
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    so far nothing has been posted to challenge this answer.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
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