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Featured Lev 16 - Day of Atonement - not so-called "doctrine of devils"

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, May 24, 2015.

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  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    So then that is the Bible - and one quote from R.C Sproul --

    What sort of nonsense might you get in response to the Bible??


    Let's stick to Leviticus and the "bible details" noted above -- "instead".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #21 BobRyan, Jun 3, 2015
  2. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Leviticus 16:21 means -- in terms of Jesus Christ, Lamb-of-God -- that

    He took upon Himself our sins and
    sent Himself into the wilderness of our grave, and
    took with Himself the sinner on the cross

    "WITH HIM into Paradise

    SO THAT WE

    "TOGETHER WITH HIM are "CO-RAISED", to

    "TOGETHER WITH HIM", be

    "more than conquerors", we who
    "IN HIM

    "IN IT TRIUMPHED" and were

    "SET UPON THE THRONE WITH HIM"

    “THE KING'S SON” who was

    "CROWNED AND ANOINTED and was

    “MADE KING"

    "SO THAT WERE FULFILLED THE SCRIPTURES :

    “Then shall The Priest KILL the goat of

    “the Sin-Offering that is for the People, and shall

    “BRING HIS BLOOD WITHIN THE VEIL and shall

    “SPRINKLE IT UPON THE MERCY SEAT and shall

    “MAKE ATONEMENT FOR THE HOLY …

    “UNTIL HE COME OUT and shall

    “HAVE MADE ATONEMENT … and shall

    “GO OUT

    “BEFORE THE LORD and shall

    “ON STRENGTH OF THE BLOOD

    “MAKE ATONEMENT … and shall

    “CLEANSE THE ALTAR and

    “HALLOW it … and shall

    “HAVE MADE AN END OF RECONCILIATION.”
     
    #22 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jun 3, 2015
  3. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    BobRyan,
    What part of Leviticus 10:16-18 has sins TRANSFERRED to the tent of meeting?
     
    #23 vooks, Jun 4, 2015
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    And so we all read this --

     
    #24 BobRyan, Jun 6, 2015
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    "Christ was made sin for us."

    The whole OT dispensation meant just that.

    "Christ bore our sins"; "He took our sins upon Him."

    Then Christ carried our sins into the wilderness of death and the grave in his own body but saw no corruption but "triumphed in it" when He rose from the dead, from death, and from the grave, and made us more than conquerors IN HIM.

    But you people do not consider it good enough even to <start the process of atonement>!
     
    #25 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jun 6, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2015
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    "THE MAIN Point is This" -- Heb 8:1 Time for NT Christians to READ the New Testament. Stop clinging to the idea that God said nothing in Lev 16 "Day of Atonement" about Atonement and that God has done nothing of significance on that subject since the cross!

    Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
    2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
    3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer.

    4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law;

    5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”

    6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
     
    #26 BobRyan, Jun 7, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2015
  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    It is time for SDAs and YOU, Bob Ryan, to READ the New Testament. Stop clinging to YOUR idea that God said nothing in Lev 16 "Day of Atonement" about Jesus Christ being The Final Atonement for sin He was, is and ever will be by the single truth He died, and was buried and RAISED that we shall be SAVED BY HIS LIFE … AND JOY IN GOD THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST BY WHOM WE HAVE, NOW, RECEIVED, OUR ATONEMENT!”

    “Therefore we are buried WITH HIM through the baptism into HIS DEATH in order that AS CHRIST WAS RAISED from the dead by the glory of the Father, so also we, might walk in NEWNESS of HIS LIFE.
    For if by the like strength of his DEATH we have become UNITED that is AT ONE with God, NO LESS have we become UNITED with God // AT ONE with God by the like power of his RESURRECTION” : now and forevermore upon this very earth.

    For God since Christ’s RESURRECTION had done and finished EVERYTHING that is of significance <<on that subject>> of making atonement for sin and reconciliation of sinners with God!

    Since his Resurrection --- not since any time after his Resurrection --- “we have been co-raised together” and exalted “with Christ” and "in Christ" : “by the power of his RESURRECTION” : “to reign” over and “destroy the body of sin, that we no longer should serve sin, having died and having been justified from sin … with Christ ... and in Christ ... THAT WE ALSO SHOULD LIVE WITH HIM” --- where He NOW is, which is “with YOU, ALWAYS”, ON HIS THRONE in the heart of his forever and ever redeemed saints!

    For THAT is where ‘heaven’ is: “In Christ” in us and we, “in HIM”.
     
    #27 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jun 8, 2015
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  8. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    No; it is not true!

    <<THE MAIN Point is>> and <<the only weapons of argument left are>> SIMPLY WAVE AND IGNORE!

    And of course, to take much pleasure and self-satisfaction in waving and ignoring all reason and argument against yourself!
     
    #28 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jun 8, 2015
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  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Clearly "we differ".
    I will be sticking with the Bible on this point.

    Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
    2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.
     
    #29 BobRyan, Jun 8, 2015
  10. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Ellen White the godess of Adventism made up so many things on the way; she claimed Jupiter was inhabited by giants, and so forth. She was illiterate, she plagiarized books so much that she was successfully sued, and more importantly, she constantly communed with demons.

    Her biggest lie was claiming that confessed sins were transferred to the sanctuary by sprinkling of blood. BobRyan like millions of other unthinking sheeple gladly regurgitate this without ever thinking it through. By God's grace he will come to a knowledge of truth and depart from doctrines of demons before he ends up in hell with White.

    Question is, which scripture supports sin transfer to the Holy Place or Holy of Holies?

    BobRyan the UNLEARNED and UNSTABLE White apologist attempts to offers one
    Leviticus 10:16-20 (ESV)
    16 Now Moses diligently inquired about the goat of the sin offering, and behold, it was burned up! And he was angry with Eleazar and Ithamar, the surviving sons of Aaron, saying, 17 “Why have you not eaten the sin offering in the place of the sanctuary, since it is a thing most holy and has been given to you that you may bear the iniquity of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the Lord? 18 Behold, its blood was not brought into the inner part of the sanctuary. You certainly ought to have eaten it in the sanctuary, as I commanded.” 19 And Aaron said to Moses, “Behold, today they have offered their sin offering and their burnt offering before the Lord, and yet such things as these have happened to me! If I had eaten the sin offering today, would the Lord have approved?” 20 And when Moses heard that, he approved.

    Aaron blundered and Moses was mad. How did he blunder?
    Leviticus 6: 24-30 (ESV)
    24 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 25 “Speak to Aaron and his sons, saying, This is the law of the sin offering. In the place where the burnt offering is killed shall the sin offering be killed before the Lord; it is most holy. 26 The priest who offers it for sin shall eat it. In a holy place it shall be eaten, in the court of the tent of meeting. 27 Whatever touches its flesh shall be holy, and when any of its blood is splashed on a garment, you shall wash that on which it was splashed in a holy place. 28 And the earthenware vessel in which it is boiled shall be broken. But if it is boiled in a bronze vessel, that shall be scoured and rinsed in water. 29 Every male among the priests may eat of it; it is most holy. 30 But no sin offering shall be eaten from which any blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the Holy Place; it shall be burned up with fire.

    The sin offering was supposed to be eaten in the holy place by the priest who offered it and other males. But if its blood had been brought to the sanctuary to make an atonement as in the Day of Atonement, it was not to be eaten, it was to be burned. Aaron burned the offering yet its blood had not been brought to the sanctuary.
    So it was either blood into the sanctuary or eating it.

    Which of these acts show sins transferred into the sanctuary? As usual, BobRyan will not attempt to tell you, he will gladly throw the scriptures and insist he is going with the scriptures. The reason is simple, he has no clue, his best answer is, Ellen White said so and Ellen white was a 'prophet' so she MUST be right
     
    #30 vooks, Jun 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2015
  11. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Observe closely BobRyan equivocating
    Nobody disputes confessing sins onto a sin offering transferred sins to the animal. And nobody but deranged White claims eating the sin offering and sprinkling its blood transfers sin.

    Let's pause a bit.
    Eating sin offerings as a continuous activity throughout the year while sprinkling happened once on the Day of Atonement.

    1. How did eating the sin offering transfer the sins onto the sanctuary? Was it by the virtue of it being eaten in the holy place? But we are told everything the sin offering touched became holy! It infected everything around it with its holiness-Lev 6:27. So, how could it transfer sins to the sanctuary while infecting anything it touched with holiness?

    2. How did it transfer sins to the Holy of Holies seeing nobody ventured there throughout the year save on the Day of Atonement? How was the Holy of Holies defiled seeing no blood nor sin offering entered there throughout?
     
    #31 vooks, Jun 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2015
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    The SDAs do NOT <stick with the Bible on this point>.

    For you, Christ is NOT "seated" which means He is now RESTING and is doing no <<work of atonement>>.

    Christ is the <Point> of "intercession" or “ministration” of "REST" for the saved-already-and-forever "IN HIM" : "WITH" Whom their "lives are HID -- REST -- in God" and do not await fate or destiny; that, and they, have been "sealed" in, in exactly Christ's perfected work of their reconciliation and eternal redemption.
     
    #32 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jun 9, 2015
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  13. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Gehard, sorry to rain on your parade, according to the lunacy that is Adventism, Christ was seated when Hebrews was penned. He stood up to atone from 1844
     
    #33 vooks, Jun 9, 2015
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    He is seated with God in 1844 - as Daniel 7 points out. God is seated on His throne in Dan 7 for the Judgment - Christ goes to God the Father for that Judgment event. And is seated there with the Father.
     
    #34 BobRyan, Jun 9, 2015
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Hint - the entire sanctuary is involved in atonement according to Lev 16 - not just one tiny part of it.

    Open the Bible... read God's statement in Lev 16 on the Day of Atonement.

    Lev 16
    16 And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.
    17 And there shall be no man in the tabernacle of the congregation when he goeth in to make an atonement in the holy place, until he come out, and have made an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel.
    18 And he shall go out unto the altar that is before the Lord, and make an atonement for it; and shall take of the blood of the bullock, and of the blood of the goat, and put it upon the horns of the altar round about.
    19 And he shall sprinkle of the blood upon it with his finger seven times, and cleanse it, and hallow it from the uncleanness of the children of Israel.
    20 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:


    Vooks you have been so married to blind-rant instead of opening the Bible and reading that all these Bible details are totally foreign to your posts.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #35 BobRyan, Jun 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2015
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    READ the points in the posts - then we can talk - so far you seem to be content to avoid the Bible at all costs.

    That approach you use - is from the dark-ages handbook of Bible-avoidance.

    More Bible -- as you seem content to flee from it.

    [FONT=&quot]In Lev 5:4-6[/FONT][FONT=&quot] we see that the sinner must confess his sin as part of this act of seeking forgiveness.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]In Lev 10:16-18 we see that sin is transferred in the daily as part of the sin offering -- from the people to the tent of meeting by the act of the Priests.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Lev 10[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]16 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]But Moses searched carefully for the goat of the sin offering, and behold, it had been burned up! So he was angry with Aaron’s surviving sons Eleazar and Ithamar, saying,[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]17 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Why did you not eat the sin offering at the holy place[/FONT][FONT=&quot]? For it is most holy, and He gave it to you to bear away the guilt of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 18 Behold, since its blood had not been brought inside, into the sanctuary, you should certainly have eaten it in the sanctuary, just as I commanded.”[/FONT]
     
    #36 BobRyan, Jun 10, 2015
  17. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    BobRyan, seems you never thawed your brains after all. You had to have it first to thaw it.

    Which part of Leviticus 10 says SIN IS TRANSFERRED IN THE DAILY
    We have either blood sprinkled in the sanctuary or sacrifice eaten in the sanctuary as part of a sin offering rite. Question is, which of these transfer sin to the sanctuary and where is it written that either or both of them transfer sin in the sanctuary?

    What we know is , without either of them, atonement is incomplete but where is it written that they transfer sins?


    The UNLEARNED and the UNSTABLE, Jesus loves you and he says
    James 1:5 New King James Version (NKJV)
    5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

    You need your brains restored first and then a double portion of wisdom sir/madam
     
    #37 vooks, Jun 10, 2015
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    hint "[FONT=&quot]For it is most holy, and He gave it to you to bear away the guilt of the congregation"

    [FONT=&quot]Which is why[FONT=&quot] we see that at the END of the [FONT=&quot]cerem[FONT=&quot]onial liturgical year[FONT=&quot] - it is the [FONT=&quot]"accumulation" the summa[FONT=&quot]tion of ALL their sins that is being dealt with on the "Day of Atonement" [FONT=&quot]not simply sins "comm[FONT=&quot]itted on that one day".

    [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

     
    #38 BobRyan, Jun 12, 2015
  19. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Which part of this shows sins transferred to the sanctuary BobRyan?
    Adventism will never think beyond White because she is the infallible interpreter of NT and OT.
     
    #39 vooks, Jun 13, 2015
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    The question of sin transfer -- via substitutionary atonement during the year and final atonement at the end of the year?

    =================================

    We already did that.

    [FONT=&quot]In Lev 5:4-6[/FONT][FONT=&quot] we see that the sinner must confess his sin as part of this act of seeking forgiveness.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]In Lev 10:16-18 we see that sin is transferred in the daily as part of the sin offering -- from the people to the tent of meeting by the act of the Priests.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Lev 10[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]16 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]But Moses searched carefully for the goat of the sin offering, and behold, it had been burned up! So he was angry with Aaron’s surviving sons Eleazar and Ithamar, saying,[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]17 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Why did you not eat the sin offering at the holy place[/FONT][FONT=&quot]? For it is most holy, and He gave it to you to bear away the guilt of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 18 Behold, since its blood had not been brought inside, into the sanctuary, you should certainly have eaten it in the sanctuary, just as I commanded.”[/FONT]





    [FONT=&quot]==========================================
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]So the question is how does eating the meat of the sin offering or sprinkling the blood transfer sin unless sin had first been transferred as part of that act of confession in Lev 5.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]A possible resolution --[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]In Lev 4:15, 8:14, 18 Num 8:12[/FONT][FONT=&quot] we see that they were to lay their hands on the head of the sin offering.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]In Lev 16:21 we see a case of laying hands on the head of the scapegoat and confessing sins.

    =================================
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]RC Sproul

    [/FONT]    [/FONT]Finally, the repeated sins of priests and people alike could build up to the point where not only the tabernacle but even the throne room of the Lord — the Most Holy Place or Holy of Holies — would also be contaminated. The Day of Atonement was designed to deal with all these realities.

    [/FONT]    [/FONT][/FONT]    [/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot] http://www.ligonier.org/learn/devoti...day-atonement/[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]    [/FONT]    [/FONT]


    Are you trying to fathom how it is that even R.C Sproul understood this glaringly obvious bible detail?

    "accumulated sin" is being dealt with - there is no individual in Lev 16 confessing the sins of that day - rather it is the sins of ALL the year that are being dealt with. And Moses said that bearing the guilt of the people was the role of the priest when taking the blood of the sin offering into the sanctuary.

    [FONT=&quot]In Lev 5:4-6[/FONT][FONT=&quot] we see that the sinner must confess his sin as part of this act of seeking forgiveness.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]In Lev 10:16-18 we see that sin is transferred in the daily as part of the sin offering -- from the people to the tent of meeting by the act of the Priests.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Lev 10[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]16 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]But Moses searched carefully for the goat of the sin offering, and behold, it had been burned up! So he was angry with Aaron’s surviving sons Eleazar and Ithamar, saying,[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]17 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Why did you not eat the sin offering at the holy place[/FONT][FONT=&quot]? For it is most holy, and He gave it to you to bear away the guilt of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 18 Behold, since its blood had not been brought inside, into the sanctuary, you should certainly have eaten it in the sanctuary, just as I commanded.”

    [FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I can q[FONT=&quot]uo[FONT=&quot]te the Bible [FONT=&quot]text you[FONT=&quot] are [FONT=&quot]avoiding as many times as you want to pre[FONT=&quot]tend that it does not say[FONT=&quot] anything. App[FONT=&quot]arently R.C [FONT=&quot]Sproul d[FONT=&quot]e[FONT=&quot]cided to simply agree with the Bible rather than p[FONT=&quot]lay your "game".[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
    [/FONT]

    The Bible says -

    Lev 16
    15 “When he slaughters the male goat for the people’s sin offering and brings its blood inside the veil, he must do the same with its blood as he did with the bull’s blood: he is to sprinkle it against the mercy seat and in front of it. 16 He will purify the most holy place in this way for all their sins because of the Israelites’ impurities and rebellious acts. He will do the same for the tent of meeting that remains among them, because it is surrounded by their impurities. 17 No one may be in the tent of meeting from the time he enters to make atonement in the most holy place until he leaves after he has made atonement for himself, his household, and the whole assembly of Israel. 18 Then he will go out to the altar that is before the Lord and make atonement for it. He is to take some of the bull’s blood and some of the goat’s blood and put it on the horns on all sides of the altar. ...


    20 “When he has finished purifying the most holy place, the tent of meeting, and the altar, he is to present the live male goat. 21 Aaron will lay both his hands on the head of the live goat and confess over it all the Israelites’ wrongdoings and rebellious acts—all their sins. He is to put them on the goat’s head and send it away into the wilderness by the man appointed for the task. 22 The goat will carry on it all their wrongdoings into a desolate land, and he will release it there.
    .
    29 “This is to be a permanent statute for you: In the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month you are to practice self-denial and do no work, both the native and the foreigner who resides among you. 30 Atonement will be made for you on this day to cleanse you, and you will be clean from all your sins before the Lord. 31 It is a Sabbath of complete rest for you, and you must practice self-denial; it is a permanent statute. 32 The priest who is anointed and ordained to serve as high priest in place of his father will make atonement. He will put on the linen garments, the holy garments, 33 and purify the most holy place. He will purify the tent of meeting and the altar and will make atonement for the priests and all the people of the assembly. 34 This is to be a permanent statute for you, to make atonement for the Israelites once a year because of all their sins.” And all this was done as the Lord commanded Moses.

    Thus once a year "for ALL their sins" - the Day of Atonement doctrine of "GOD".

    Those who would call this resolution for "ALL their sins" - doctrine of "Atonement" - a "doctrine of devils" need to re-think the service that they do - and to whom they do it.

    ===============================

    R.C. Sproul knows about the "Accumulated sin" teaching in the Bible regarding God's "Day of Atonement" doctrine.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #40 BobRyan, Jun 15, 2015
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