1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Liberal, left-leaning "Baptists?"

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Counselor, May 10, 2002.

  1. Ernie Brazee

    Ernie Brazee <img src ="/ernie.JPG">

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2001
    Messages:
    843
    Likes Received:
    0
    Stan,

    Just as Elijah wasn't alone, niether are you.

    The problem as revealed on this board, many have false professions and have never met the Lord Jesus Christ. When a person gets saved they want to put sin away, and it will be a struggle until we receive our glorified bodies when we are with Christ.

    Those who still hang on to their old life and love to indulge in sin, and label it as "soul liberty" have no life. There can be no new birth until there is a death of the old life.

    2 Cor. 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: behold, old things are passed away; behold, all things become new.

    Galtians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made you free,and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


    Liberty from sin not liberty to sin!


    Ernie

    [ May 12, 2002, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Ernie Brazee ]
     
  2. post-it

    post-it <img src=/post-it.jpg>

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,785
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's nice to know you have such insight with the Lord that he revealed my last 32 years as a Christian Baptist was just some oversight on my part.

    Agreed, I have never said differently.

    So have you found an explaination yet to leave the gossiping Christian women out of this context?
     
  3. post-it

    post-it <img src=/post-it.jpg>

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,785
    Likes Received:
    0
    So, following your assumptions on sin, who amoung you has the guts to be the first to admit, "The majority of women in our Churches are not saved or are damned because they continue to gossip?"

    Just to clarify gossip: Idle talk about the private affairs of others. Classified as a sin deserving of Death, Romans 1:29

    [ May 12, 2002, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]
     
  4. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2000
    Messages:
    3,426
    Likes Received:
    0
    post-it,
    If a church is riddled with gossipers, the solution is to deal with it in a biblical way, not excuse it. Likewise, if a church has someone in it who is a practicing homosexual, they should deal with it biblically. Poor discipline in an area is not a reason to become lax in another area as well, it is a wake-up call to be obedient in all areas.

    At a practical level, gossip is a prevalant problem in Baptist churches while homosexuality is not. Your solution seems to be, "Let homosexuality become prevalent as well. We need to practice equal opportunity sinning." Sorry, I don't see that as a solution.
     
  5. post-it

    post-it <img src=/post-it.jpg>

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,785
    Likes Received:
    0
    Swaimj, I agree with your initial response and have never said we should excuse it, I am asking if it is indeed considered sin today?

    You have made 2 very important points. And a valid conclusion.
    1. Gossip is a prevalent problem in Baptist churches
    2. We don’t have a solution to the problem of gossip.
    Conclusion: Since we can’t fix the sin of gossip, we don’t want any more sin problems in the churches so lets keep homosexuals out.

    Following your argument we should never allow the homosexuals the same opportunity to see the error of their ways like we are giving the gossipers. So we are to let the homo’s die and the gossipers potentially to find God.
     
  6. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    0
    Chris, I will, at your request, stick with scripture to back all assertions I make. I will also stop posting at your request.

    Continuing into the next chapter we find the following.
    1 Cor 7:
    It is good for a man not to marry.
    25 Now about virgins, I think that it is good for you to remain as you are.
    29 From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none;

    Something changed somewhere, otherwise we have a contradiction in instruction between then and now. Just as 1 Cor 7 is no longer in force, neither are certain parts of Chapter 6.
    </font>[/QUOTE]What contradictions? Who says 1 Cor 7 is no longer in force? What parts of 1 Cor 6 are no longer in force and who decides they are not, you? The Bible is not interpreted by a hermeneutic of preference, but by one of the analogy of faith, Scripture interpreting Scripture. And when done so by believing interpretation, it is quite clear that no contradiction exists.
     
  7. Counselor

    Counselor New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2002
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bro. Brazee,
    Of course you are right. I am afraid I slipped into that "Elijah Complex"
    There are a number of good men on this board and I am glad that I can share some thoughts and try to glean some wisdom from them!
    In the service of the King
    Stan
     
  8. MissAbbyIFBaptist

    MissAbbyIFBaptist <img src=/3374.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 3, 2002
    Messages:
    2,567
    Likes Received:
    0
  9. Counselor

    Counselor New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2002
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    When I originally posted this topic of left-leaning Baptists, I thought it would bring some discussion of some gray areas throughtout our respective circles. I never dreamed that it would turn into what it has. I would like some more input from those of you with a bit different background than mine. (Bob Jones University) 'nough said.
    Whether it be music, clothes, movies, etc please expound your views and why, preferably backing up with scripture.
    Thank you all, I look forward to your replys.
    Stan
     
  10. post-it

    post-it <img src=/post-it.jpg>

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,785
    Likes Received:
    0
    Chris, I have conceded not to argue what is a sin or what is not a sin and thus concede this point. I am well into the argument of how to handle sin within the Church, since we should all come to some type of agreement on this subject. Would you address the question I am posing on gossip? I think that is more to the point we can all learn from. If we can solve this problem then it acts as a model of how to solve the other problems of people who continue in sin after they have been saved.
     
  11. Ernie Brazee

    Ernie Brazee <img src ="/ernie.JPG">

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2001
    Messages:
    843
    Likes Received:
    0
    As for gossipers, when one turns up in our church it is dealt with like any sin. Sin is sin and we don't practice Catholic cardinal and minor sin. Bible says if you commit one you are guilty of all.

    Yes, gossip is sin and is very dangerous, must be dealt with.

    Ernie
     
  12. Headcoveredlady

    Headcoveredlady New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,388
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ernie,
    Can you tell me more about how gossip is dealt with in your church. This is a problem in our church.

    HCL
     
  13. Ernie Brazee

    Ernie Brazee <img src ="/ernie.JPG">

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2001
    Messages:
    843
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew 18:15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
    16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
    17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.


    First mistake is listening to gossip, how do you know it is gossip? Why is the person relating the information, as a prayer request, an earnest prayer request, one they could ask in public. Next have they discussed the matter with the other person? Why are u telling me this, etc.

    If the person persists in spreading rumors then it is time to apply the teaching on Matthew 18.

    It works; we have practiced Matthew 18 for 36 years, yes some have left, but it keeps the church pure. No, not perfect by any means but it is God honoring to purge known sin, in the church, and in our personal lives.

    Ernie
     
  14. Counselor

    Counselor New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2002
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew 18 is also the guide in our church and it works. Society today has gotten so soft that people just can't face responsibility for their actions. That is why they refuse to come to church and also leave the church when the preaching hits too close to home.
    I personally am glad when the Holy Spirit convicts me of something... to draw me nearer to God. That is where I want to be. Sure it hurts and sometimes is embarrassing, but well worth it to keep that sweet fellowship with the Savior.
     
  15. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    2,859
    Likes Received:
    0
    Counselor, coming from the urban, liberal side of baptist life, I was as surprised by the things I found on this board as you - only in the opposite direction. I went to a baptist seminary where we went out together for margaritas some evenings. Women and men trained there together for the pastorate, and no one worried about who went to the movies or who wore pants.

    Since coming here, I've realized that there are two (or perhaps more) very different baptist worlds that rarely overlap.

    As for my approach to Scripture, the liberal hermeneutic thread might be of some help to you there.

    Joshua
     
  16. Counselor

    Counselor New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2002
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mr. Villines,
    Where I come from and the circles I run in, you would not even come close to being a Baptist. I mean no harm but I truly believe that you have been led astray of what scripture teaches. I mean, margaritas and women preachers... Lord have mercy!!!
    Granted somethings are harped on alot that could be left alone, but, We should really strive to be as pleasing to the Lord as possible and when we go against the teaching of the scripture we fail miserably!
    I respect your right to be wrong, however, my calling as an evangelist and servant of the King screams out at me to help those who are in darkness, I am to help those who want to know the truth to "...rightly divide..." it!
    I therefore do not condemn, but I "...mark and avoid..." those who would lead others away from that truth by a hardening of the heart.
    Please, sir, search the Word with prayerful expectation and let the Spirit guide, convict, and control!
    In the service of the King
    Stan
     
  17. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    2,859
    Likes Received:
    0
    Counselor, there are over 1800 baptist churches in the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, and the CBF is explicit about training women for the pastorate (and includes churches with women as pastors). It's also headquartered on the campus where I went to seminary. Perhaps the baptist spectrum is larger than you realize. Even if there are no CBF churches in your area, I'm sure there are American Baptist Churches there. I think there are even Alliance churches in Pennsylvania.

    Joshua

    [ May 12, 2002, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: Rev. Joshua Villines ]
     
  18. BPM

    BPM New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    0
    The number of Baptist Churches or their differences makes no difference whatsoever, neither does the fact that women and men gossip.
    The point is that the Word of God is the standard by which all people are judged.

    Post it I feel you are trying to say that since we appear to have indulged certain sin we should also induldge the homosexual, if this is your point then I am Praying that God will enlighten you on this error.

    The problem as I see it with homosexuals is that they for the most part don't feel that their lifestyle is sin, they reason away scripture by flaunting their education(whether that education was obtained at "margaritaville" or not doesn't matter)those women gossipers you have talked about have no problem understanding that gossip is sin, they simply haven't mastered that problem yet. They may never master it and the homosexual may not either but the difference is that the women when called down about their sin will have remorse and some will repent. On the otherhand homosexuals (atleast those I have known) are unrepentant and indifferent to their sin and the liberal Pastors who indulge them are adding to the problem.
     
  19. Counselor

    Counselor New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2002
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Could not have said it any better than that BPM!
    PRAISE KING JESUS!!!
     
  20. post-it

    post-it <img src=/post-it.jpg>

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,785
    Likes Received:
    0
    When you said these women "haven't mastered it" you have allowed a special pleading which means they are allowed to continue in sin while you hold no equal exception for the homosexual.

    However, you are admitting that many women can't stop the sin of gossip, and they should be allowed to "work on it" while continuing to attend church with no time-frame in which to succeed at mastering it. I would agree with you on this point, they should be. Others here have made the statement that they should be kicked out of the Church or they can't possibly be a truly "saved" Christian.

    We now find Stan agreeing with you on your point of allowing them to stay since they haven't mastered this sin yet. Stan, that is a nice switch from your earlier stance. I have hope for you yet.

    Does anyone else agree with BPM, Stan, and Myself that sinners should be allowed to stay in the church while they work out their sin issues?

    [ May 12, 2002, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]
     
Loading...