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Liberal to Hyper....Where do I fit in?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Pastor_Bob, Jul 18, 2002.

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  1. Headcoveredlady

    Headcoveredlady New Member

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    Farmers wife,
    My sentiments exactly. I thought that same thing when I read that. Jesus was amazing the teachers with his knowledge of Scripture! And even if He was being taught there, He was twelve years old at that point. IN Jewish culture that meant He was a man. He had already been trained by His parents.
    I know today young men of twelve are hardly mature enough to be out on their own, but I am sure Jesus was and so were others in His culture. Even today I know of Mennonite's who train their boys to become men early. They put them to work and by the time they are twenty or so they have jobs and are ready to marry.
    As far as Samuel I think he was a special case. And if you read further into the passage you will see that Eli's home was cursed because he did not restrain his own children. So, in that case as well we see a father being held responsible for the training of his children.

    HCL
     
    #21 Headcoveredlady, Jul 19, 2002
  2. TheOliveBranch

    TheOliveBranch New Member

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    Pastor Bob,
    What is your views on music, eternal security, and headship? You sound conservative, but I also know some from the Pentacostal persuasion that have the views you mentioned.
     
    #22 TheOliveBranch, Jul 19, 2002
  3. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    Hello Olive Branch:

    Music is such a vast area that I can only be general in my answer. I believe that our music should be, above all else, Christ-honoring. We've lost the goal of worship in our services and have instead focused on entertainment.
    I am against using worldly music in the church. We use a piano and organ. I do not allow worldly accompanist tapes. We sing the good, old fashioned hymns of the church. Our special music would follow close to Ron Hamilton songs with an occasional quartet number now and then.

    I believe the Bible teaches that we are eternally secure in our salvation. We are "sealed" by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. I do not believe this eternal security is a license to sin. I strongly believe that "whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth."

    If by "headship" you mean the proper structure of the home, I follow the teachings set forth in the following passages.

    1Cor 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."
    Eph 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."

    I do not believe that women have a lesser value to God. I believe the husband is to "love" and "cherish" his wife just as Christ loved the church. You show me a man who loves his wife like Christ loved the church and I'll show you a home that is biblically correct in the area of headship.

    I hope this answered your questions Olive Branch.
    God Bless You
     
    #23 Pastor_Bob, Jul 19, 2002
  4. latterrain77

    latterrain77 New Member

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    Hi Clint. Thank you for the follow up. You raise terrific points. I will try to address them, not necessarily in order. Please forgive the length of this rather long post. I love brevity - though I struggle when trying to practice it.

    First, allow me to suggest that it is an absolute impossibility for Jesus to have been "taught" anything, by anyone. Our LORD was as much Eternal GOD as a child, as he was at any other time. It stands to reason that the LORD would understand what he himself composed (the Bible). GOD in "training," is simply unthinkable.

    Luke 2: 40 indicates that the LORD's wisdom was already in place BEFORE he had contact with the teachers described in Luke 2: 46-47. The occasion of Jesus in this Temple, at that time, was a result of a specific journey that the Lord's family made from their hometown to Jerusalem where this event occured (the LORD was 12 years old, possibly bar-mitzvah? - v42). As a result, it is not possible that the LORD had regular "training sessions" with these men. In fact, the Luke 2 text does not imply anything about "training" at all. It suggests what we might call "brainstorming" (the LORD testing the wisdom of these men, rather than the other way around).

    The Pharisees played a role in the temple that is directly akin to the role of a modern day "pastor" in a Christian congregation. For example, consider that the Pharisees had the authority to excommunicate (John 12:42, John 9: 15-23). In a Christian congregation, this is a power that is ultimately vested in the pastor. The Pharisees gave instruction to the congregation on matters concerning Biblical law (Matt. 23) much like a pastor does concerning the whole Bible. If true, then the statements that Jesus made toward the Pharisees in John 8:44 are equally valid for any puffed up pastor in a Christian congregation. Mind you - NOT ALL pastors - but for those who are arrogant and haughty such as these Pharisees were (as described by Jesus). Clint, unfortunately, there are many "pastors" today who brazenly fit the description of these Pharisees. As a result, a true believer must be EXTREMELY cautious about any church authority, looking always for a certainty that the 1 Tim. 3 standards are plainly evident. Without that standard being fully met, one runs the risk of encountering the 2 Cor. 11: 13-15 experience.

    Thank you again for your thoughts Clint. It is very much appreciated.

    latterrain77

    [ July 19, 2002, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: latterrain77 ]
     
    #24 latterrain77, Jul 19, 2002
  5. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer Active Member
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    #25 Clint Kritzer, Jul 19, 2002
  6. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    I have thought about this thread, and have decided it belongs more properly in "Denominational Discussions" rather than "Baptist History." So I am giving notice that I will be moving it this morning - in about an hour.
     
    #26 rlvaughn, Jul 20, 2002
  7. John3v36

    John3v36 New Member

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    What is a "Rare, Ultra Conservative, Fundamentalist"? :confused:
     
    #27 John3v36, Jul 29, 2002
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