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Featured Life given to Jesus

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JamesL, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    John 5:26 - For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself (NASB)

    What does it mean that the Father "gave" (NIV says "granted) to the Son to have life in Himself?
     
  2. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Hmm, and it's nestled right there between a verse on the resurrection and a verse on judgement.
     
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  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    adoke - Aorist of didomi - give, grant allow.

    That the indestructible life of God was granted to the God-man persona of Christ in the incarnation.

    While the mortal life of His humanity could be destroyed the life of His essential being ( the Logos) remained intact and was not touched in the Kenosis.

    This is how He was able to raise Himself from the dead.
    John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

    My opinion.

    HankD
     
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Just shows to us that Jesus was/is the unique and only begotten of the father, is fully also God!
     
  5. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    Kind of a non-answer, dontcha think?
     
  6. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    IMHO

    For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. John 5:21
    No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. John 10:18
    g2983 λαμβάνω lambanō ----- to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get back

    But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Rom 8:11
    Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Rom 6:0

    And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1 Cor 15:45,46

    For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

    and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'
    Gen 2:17 YLT

    In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; Titus 1:2
    God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:1,2

    1 Cor 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain..For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    Did he really die for our sins? As the heir, did he really inherit the promise of God? Are we really joint heirs with Him?

    That is what I believe John 5:26 states.
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    I believe what is being said is that the life of the Son is of God. Because Jesus is the Son of man (because Jesus took upon Himself corruptible/sinful flesh) God has given Him authority to execute Judgment (in terms of mankind). This uniquely places Christ as the point where God and mankind meet.
     
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  8. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    Do believe the Son or the Word (the eternal aspect of Christ) only became Jesus in the incarnation, and that it's the "whole" of Jesus who was "granted" life through the incarnation?

    That's kind of what I gather from your words, just want to make sure I understand exactly what you're saying
     
  9. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    Do you see your answer as somewhat synonymous with @HankD 's answer?
     
  10. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    Probably.
     
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  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I can't correlate what you say with the following scripture:

    John 1:14 And the Word (deity) was made flesh (human), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    John 1:14 is what I believe. I don't separate Jesus and the Logos, they are the same person.

    Plus I believe Jesus is the Christ.

    John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    When Jesus mortal body died, His Spirit persona did not and went to the Father as He commended it so.
    When our mortal body dies, our spirit returns to God.

    HankD
     
  12. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Let me ask a question.

    You stated; The Logos remained intact and was not touched in the Kenosis.

    The Word of God states; And the Word (Logos) was made flesh John 1:14. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1 Cor 15:50,51

    Did it apply to the Word made flesh? Consider Romans 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him, and Acts 13:33,34 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

    Was it the Word, made flesh, who was raised from the dead to die no more, raised no more to return to corruption?
     
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I don't know how death affected the Logos - the persona of Jesus Christ. However It(He) did not cease to exist.
    His mortal body died on the cross and He commended His Spirit to the Father.

    Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

    There is no possible way that the eternal Logos the second person of the Trinity could die.
    Jesus mortal body died and His Spirit returned to the father.

    HankD
     
  14. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    It seems that death affected the Logos in that He became man (became “sinful flesh” and experienced death, reconciling mankind to God). His death did not render the consequence of sin for us nonexistent (we still die, physically) but He rendered death benign as we are purchased out of it
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, its that ther Eternal God the Son became a man, Jesus in the Incarnation, as he has both deity and human natures now!
     
  16. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    Depending on how you define "nature" your statement could be very scriptural or very much out of bounds
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    The "s" in nature is problematic. Scripture teaches that the Logos became flesh, not that He took on human nature as an appendage.
     
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  18. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    The Hypostatic Union and Kenosis doctrines are fraught with difficulties when one tries to chase down all the details.

    Suffice to say Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man and IMO lost absolutely nothing in the Kenosis.
    Whatever earthly limitations he was under were strictly in a voluntary agreement with the Father.

    HankD
     
  19. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    I believe we overcomplicate the issue. Christ gave up nothing except that he sought equality with God something not to be esteemed and emptied Himself. If we allow Scripture to interpret the verse, then the Kenosis becomes the Logos “taking the form of a bond-servant, being born in the likeness of man”. We can see this throughout Christ's work (from the Incarnation to the Cross) as He informs us He did nothing of His own accord but the will of the Father through the Spirit. This is perfect human obedience as God is, through Christ, reconciling the world to Himself.
     
  20. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    I think it depends on how you define nature. And it's almost impossible to get people to speak in unambiguous terms

    In one view, some inner "quality" involving the psyche - will, emotions, etc. This is where we see unbiblical phrases like "in His Divinity" and "in His humanity"

    Such as Jesus not knowing the hour of His return, it's said that He doesn't know "in His humanity"

    In this view, Jesus is portrayed as having two souls, but never expressed that way. This view also produces static, because it cannot be rightly said that He can function in both capacities simultaneously.


    Another view is that "nature" denotes substance. His inner man is 100% the very Word of God. His outer man is 100% human body.

    I was watching in on a debate once, where some Seventh-Day Adventists were debating against some Calvinists about the "natures" of Christ.

    I could tell just by the comments that each side was talking past the other side because they did not understand that there are at least two ways of looking at this issue of "nature"
     
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