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Limited Atonement: God's Power to Save

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Humble Disciple, Jul 15, 2021.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The Calvinist view of Christ not laying down His life as a ransom for all is obviously false doctrine. Christ became the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2. He bought those heading for swift destruction, as well as those to be saved, 1 Peter 2:1. Since God desires all people to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:4. His plan provided the opportunity to be saved according to His plan to everyone exposed to the gospel of Christ. John 3:16
     
    #121 Van, Jul 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Sure you have. If God drew you, then it is God's particular choice of you according to his particular atonement for your sins. God caused and the effect was your response.
    Any attempt to claim that you chose to "accept" God's gift as a means of free will is a claim of trying to get to God on your own terms.
     
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    The Van view of Christ paying for all human sins across the board, but God only picking those who manufacture a righteous faith is obviously a false doctrine not supported by God.

    Note that Van's claim of "Christ became the means of salvation for the whole of humanity" is plucked from a couple verses out of context. Secondly, Van's claim is man centered as it makes man the focal point in whether a person is saved or not saved.

    Anyone reading what Van has stated can see the error.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    And the misrepresentation of others continues with this spewer of falsehoods. Did I say Christ "paid for all human sins?" Nope, I said Christ paid the ransom for all, as found in scripture (1 Timothy 2:6).
    Calvinism is completely based on out of context disinformation.
    Calvinism is man-centered, shifting responsibility for effective evangelism from those born anew to God.

    If God does it all, why is it hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom? Folks, if you study scripture, you will find Calvinism is false doctrine.

    The Calvinist view of Christ not laying down His life as a ransom for all is obviously false doctrine. Christ became the means of salvation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2. He bought those heading for swift destruction, as well as those to be saved, 1 Peter 2:1. Since God desires all people to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:4. His plan provided the opportunity to be saved according to His plan to everyone exposed to the gospel of Christ. John 3:16
     
  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    It's precisely because God is the cause that a rich man cannot enter the kingdom. Anyone who tries to enter without God calling him into the banquet and giving him the clothes for the banquet cannot get in.

    Van, if Christ paid the ransom for all, then Christ also paid for all sins. That is what the ransom paid for. You are trying to split hairs in order to somehow extricate yourself from the theological conundrum you are in.
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Jesus proof that John 10:26 he says you believe not because you're not my sheep
     
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  7. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    . I was drawn many times and I rejected Salvation because of free will. Being drawn does not mean I was elect all men are drawn to Christ.. Only Jews are elect. You are still trying to misrepresent Salvation by Faith. We are saved by faith. I realize you weren't you were saved because God respected you or preferred you Why you were just so special He just had to have you. LOL!:Laugh
    I hope the Lord convicts you of your refusal to admit the truth instead of making it up.
    MB
     
  8. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Does this make you Jewish?
    MB
     
  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Rich men can enter heaven the Bible never says they can't. Yet more false hoods.
    MB
     
  10. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure He was not speaking of Calvinism.
    MB
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Note the irrational response, scripture says it is hard for a rich man to enter, and the disinformation poster says "cannot enter."
    They cannot defend their false doctrine so they waste time spewing nonsense.

    Next they say Christ could not provide the means of salvation, the ransom payment, without paying for the individual sins. This absurdity is straight from the horses mouth.

    Folks, ask yourselves, where is the individual located when Christ performs the circumcision done without hands?
    For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; (Colossians 2:9-11)

    Thus only after God places a person into Christ (positional sanctification) is their sin burden removed and their sins forgiven forever.
     
    #131 Van, Jul 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  12. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You were not drawn those times. If you had been drawn, you would have been redeemed.
    You were, however, informed about the gospel and like all person's not drawn you found the gospel foolish. God abandoned you to your own lusts (see Romans 1) until the time he chose to draw you.
    Second, in Romans 2 and in Romans 9 Paul tells us that one is not a Jew outwardly, but all who are chosen are Jews (Israel), children of the Promise, inwardly. Thus, election is for the Israel of God, which comes from every nation, tribe and tongue.
    Third, we are justified by faith, but we are saved by grace. This is clear in all of the epistles, just read Romans and Ephesians to get this straight.
    Fourth, you show your ignorance and act as though being elect is merit based when you sarcastically say "God preferred" you. The election of the saints is known only to God and was set before the foundation of the world, before I ever became human. This mystery is for God alone and there is nothing in that mystery by which any human could boast. What your response reveals is how very much you resent God's ultimate authority over humanity. You hate the thought that God saved you by His will not by your own will. You have no place for boasting.
    The conviction is for you. You have painted God with an accusation. For this you should seek repentance.
     
  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    No, they can't. The meek inherit the earth. Read Jesus sermon on the mount. Those who are rich (filled with self pride) cannot enter. There is no merited means of entering heaven.
     
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Ignore the quoted person.
     
  15. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I have some news for you. You are rich when compared to the rest of the world.. That is unless you live in a dump and eat out of Garbage cans.Your post is just plumb ignorant. You are rich and don't know it I guess.Your not meek either.
    MB
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Note the irrational response, scripture says it is hard for a rich man to enter, and the disinformation poster says "cannot enter."
    They cannot defend their false doctrine so they waste time spewing nonsense.

    Next they say Christ could not provide the means of salvation, the ransom payment, without paying for the individual sins. This absurdity is straight from the horse's mouth.

    Folks, ask yourselves, where is the individual located when Christ performs the circumcision done without hands?
    For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; (Colossians 2:9-11)

    Thus only after God places a person into Christ (positional sanctification) is their sin burden removed and their sins forgiven forever.

    Limited Atonement as wrongly understood by Calvinism is obviously false doctrine.
     
  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Not spiritually.
    You need to stop thinking economically and understand that Jesus is talking about those who see themselves as greater than they ought. The rich young ruler wanted control and could not give it up, thus he walked away in sorrow. Perhaps there came a day when he was emptied and God redeemed him, but the Bible gives us no record of redemption.

    I, myself, am prideful like all humanity, but my Redeemer has caused me to repent and to realize that apart from being found, immersed, in Christ I would be sentenced to hell.

    MB, do you know the amazing grace of Jesus that comes without any efforts from you?
     
  18. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I rarely think economically. Economics is not the subject. It's your spiritual condition that is of concern to me. God gives grace comes to every person on earth. It rains on the wrong doers as well as the righteous God blesses all men with what they have or else they would not have it. Even when they don't deserve it. Grace happens to all. There is no special kind of faith. Only one,
    MBwhich concerns believing.
    How about you? do you have any faith that God will save you from hell with out conviction faith or repentance?
     
  19. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    According to Arminian theologian Kenneth Grider, the Arminian rejection of limited atonement ultimately leads to rejecting penal substitution altogether:

     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I asked you a simple question.
    I did not ask for you to give your thoughts on the identity of the sheep.

    Jesus says He lays down His life for HIS SHEEP.

    HERE IS THE QUESTION.
    WHY DOES HE EXPLAIN HE DIED FOR HIS SHEEP, IF HE DIED FOR GOATS ALSO.?
    HE DOES NOT SAY...I DIED FOR EVERYONE.
     
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