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Limited Atonement: Let's set the record straight.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by delizzle, Feb 13, 2018.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Do you think that God intended that the lost were to be saved?
     
    #81 Yeshua1, Feb 14, 2018
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Just as you do.

    "The overwhelming majority of Christians who reject limited atonement also reject universal salvation. They are particularists, not universalists. They insist on the doctrine of justification by faith alone. That is, only believers are saved by the atonement of Christ.

    "If that is so, then the atonement, in some sense, must be limited, or restricted, to a definite group, namely believers." *

    So you, just like me, believe the Atonement is limited to believers.

    *Biblical Scholasticism by R.C. Sproul, Ligonier Ministries.
    Biblical Scholasticism by R.C. Sproul
     
    #82 TCassidy, Feb 14, 2018
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  3. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Even going to hell is a sin in itself. Because God commands ALL MANKIND not to sin.

    Within the Command he wants all in heaven.
     
    #83 utilyan, Feb 14, 2018
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God does NOT command sinners to stop sinning, He commands those who are to be saved to trust and lean wholly upon Jesus Christ!
     
    #84 Yeshua1, Feb 14, 2018
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    If that coin is "Atonement"

    And one side is the work of Christ on the cross as sin offering
    And the other side is the work of Christ as High Priest in Heaven as Hebrews 4,8,9 state along with Lev 16

    so then two different phases of Christ's work -- separated by time

    then "agreed" :)

    You will be the first Calvinist I ever met willing to go that far along with Hebrews and "The Day of Atonement"

    Not the same "event"

    Christ was not in heaven while on the cross.



    1 Cor 5 says "Christ our Passover has been sacrificed" - Christ is not only the "sin offering" of the "Day of Atonement" he is ALL sin offerings for all the year both individual events and in the Passover and in the daily service and the end-of-year "Day of Atonement" sacrifice. They all collapse down into the One Sacrifice of Christ... ALL are covered.

    Just as Christ's ministry as High Priest includes all the events and services all during the year - not just the "Day of Atonement" They all point to the work of Christ in heaven as High Priest -- His work covers all.
     
    #85 BobRyan, Feb 14, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Until you read the Bible.

    1 John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you sin not"

    It was Christ who said "Go and sin no more"
     
    #86 BobRyan, Feb 14, 2018
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance"
    "we BEG of you on behalf of Christ - BE reconciled to God" 2 Cor 5
     
    #87 BobRyan, Feb 14, 2018
  8. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    I believe that it was God's will that none would parish and that all would come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)
     
    #88 delizzle, Feb 14, 2018
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  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    What are you tweeting about this time? This is nonsense.
     
    #89 Iconoclast, Feb 14, 2018
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    A perfect example of using the term "atonement" with an entirely different meaning than what delizzle is defining it to be.

    You can't say "yes" or "no" to the point - without first agreeing on terms
     
    #90 BobRyan, Feb 14, 2018
  11. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    You had me all the way up to this comment. The atonement is universal to all. People are in hell not because of their sin, but because they rejected Jesus (including the atonement of their sin).

    Btw. I just wanted to say that I really do appreciate our conversations. I know it is frustrating at times. But I believe that these conversations are healthy. Trust me brother when I say that if we were neighbors, we would be having this conversation over some beer and bbq.
     
    #91 delizzle, Feb 14, 2018
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    And what is keeping God from accomplish His sovereign will?
     
    #92 Yeshua1, Feb 14, 2018
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Gid does not command the lost to stop sinning, nor to clean up their act, he commands them to look upon Christ, to believe upon the name of the Son of God, period!
     
    #93 Yeshua1, Feb 14, 2018
  14. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Himself.
     
    #94 delizzle, Feb 14, 2018
  15. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Could this be because their sins have already been atoned for?
     
    #95 delizzle, Feb 14, 2018
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, its due to God not requiring them to do that ion order to get saved!
     
    #96 Yeshua1, Feb 14, 2018
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You are an antinomian.
    7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

    8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:


    Pharisees say....Y1 told us;
    Gid does not command the lost to stop sinning, nor to clean up their act,
     
    #97 Iconoclast, Feb 14, 2018
  18. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Ok.
     
    #98 delizzle, Feb 14, 2018
  19. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Not trusting and going against what Christ commands is a SIN too.

    Matthew 5

    19“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    I would argue this verse describes you.
     
    #99 utilyan, Feb 14, 2018
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So, rejecting Christ is not a sin? If it is not a sin, what is it, and was Christ wrong when He said in John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God?"

    If rejecting Christ is a sin, then did Christ fail to pay the debt for all sin but left unpaid the sin of rejecting Him? And if so, how is that sin forgiven, as we have all rejected Him prior to accepting Him.
     
    #100 TCassidy, Feb 14, 2018
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