1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Limited Atonement: Let's set the record straight.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by delizzle, Feb 13, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    15,333
    Likes Received:
    1,237
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'm the last person I'm Baptist board that would make any such post as I don't believe Free Will exists.
     
  2. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    2,979
    Likes Received:
    107
    LOL, The irony of that post could probably give a philosopher a good laugh.
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    15,333
    Likes Received:
    1,237
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Listen again....you are ot getting what he is saying
    It might because the idea or the concept of free will only exist in carnal philosophy and Hollywood movies and of course in faulty defective theology
     
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    3,341
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And I am not going to respond to the "It's all God's fault" blasphemy.
     
  5. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    2,979
    Likes Received:
    107
    Rejecting Christ is a Sin, But drinking water does not equate to rejecting Christ.

    Its by his terms not yours. Even his betrayal came with a kiss.

    John 14
    15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


    The love of God and neighbor intrinsically call for a mercy to rejectors, and those who oppose mercy to rejectors are merely GREATER REJECTORS.



    The GOOD SAMARITAN is called the GOOD SAMARITAN because he is not the GOOD CHRISTIAN.

    And that is the FIRST card Jesus plays as an example of AGAPE, a love of GOD and LOVE of NEIGHBOR,

    He could have said well let me tell you about myself, But go figure Jesus is not megalomaniac.

    You guys literally would have to preach a DAMNED SAMARITAN.
     
  6. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    41
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I don't think anyone here is making such a claim. At least I hope not. It's true that before God is loving and merciful, He is righteous, Holy, and Just.
    I do not wish to get into a discussion on this comment lest I am hit again with Romans 9. However, the reality is that many of the atheists I have talked to left reformed churches for this very reason. The issue is not necessarily that God sends people to hell. It's the thought that God would send someone to hell without ever giving that person an opportunity to be saved. I actually hope Calvinism is true because I hate the thought of so many people being damned to hell because it was false.
     
  7. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    41
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I would also like to note the obvious "??" at the end of the post demonstrating that it was an obvious question, not a statement, assertion, or claim.
     
  8. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    41
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Correct me if I am wrong. But he appeared to say that we do have will. But it is a slave to sin. Is that what you mean by "free will doesn't exist"? That we do have a will, but it's not free. If that is the case, then I stand corrected. Meaning, "even for Calvinism your statement is false" is a false statement.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    15,333
    Likes Received:
    1,237
    Faith:
    Baptist
    People leave churches because they hate the biblical God and His word.
    Unsaved men cannot understand the truth....so they go where there is entertainment instead
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    15,333
    Likes Received:
    1,237
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes....exactly....scripture says we are self willed....we make choices....reformed persons speak of....free moral agency....choices we are fully responsible for....but bound by our nature.
    In heaven we will not be free to sin.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Adam had Free will, Lucifer had free will, Gabriel has free will, we have free will ... we will have free will in heaven.

    Calvinism's solution is "make 'em all robots"
    God's solution is the Gospel over 6000 years of time creating "compelling evidence" for free will beings to make right choices.
     
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    3,341
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The bible makes it clear that our will is not free. It is in bondage to the law of sin and death. Just as the Christian's will is not free, it is bound to the law of New Life in Christ.

    Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    His sovereign will is to have a free will universe.
    Thus

    "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11
    "O Jerusalem Jerusalem.. How I WANTED... but you would not" Matthew 23
    "we BEG you on behalf of Christ - BE reconciled to God" 2 Cor 5

    Your post in response to the texts I gave - - makes it "appear" that the language the text uses is "unaware" that the lost do not have free will and thus had no other choice.

    "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11
    "O Jerusalem Jerusalem.. How I WANTED... but you would not" Matthew 23
    "we BEG you on behalf of Christ - BE reconciled to God" 2 Cor 5

    It makes it "appear" that you consider God not being fully informed in that point and thus His inspired Word is appealing to the "choice" of those who are lost and "BEGGING" them to make a better choice -- not knowing that Calvinism has the right solution for that problem

    Your "a bound self will no matter how many times" ?? God begs them?? (or posts about God begging them are quoted) ??

    Are you solving your problem or digging the hole deeper?
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Even the most devout Calvinist admits that the John 6 "drawing of God" enables all the "choice to accept the Gospel" that depravity disables. What they deny is the John 12:32 statement that all mankind are being drawn to God.

    God enables the free will choice to accept the Gospel - supernaturally - and "Draws ALL mankind to Himself" enabling ALL to respond. So this is not about the lost person suddenly exercising free will and perfectly obeying the LAW of God without being born again or need of the Gospel. This is about the lost person "having the free will choice" to respond to the Holy Spirit and be born again.

    I love it that we get asked to repeat the answer over and over again on the C-vs-A board.
     
  15. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    41
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Well, for their sake, I hope you are right.
     
  16. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    41
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
     
  17. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    41
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Does that mean that Christians are incapable of choosing to sin? Or that Christians are incapable of rejecting Christ. Not trying to challenge you. Just need clarification.
     
  18. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    41
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Did I say "it's all God's fault"? Remember, an attack on your theology is not an attack on you or God.
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    My "make 'em all robots" statement was in response to the statement "In heaven we will not be free to sin" -- no sin once we get to heaven because God does not allow them to choose sin.

    So not a reference to the depravity state of the lost on this side of the 2nd coming.

    If God were willing to simply mind-zap-everyone-to-not-sin then that solution should have been invoked the day before Lucifer made that historic bad choice.
     
    #139 BobRyan, Feb 15, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  20. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    41
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    An atheist I spoke with made a statement that even if there was a 0.0000000000001% chance that we could choose to sin while in heaven, given an infinite amount of time, the chances of us actually sinning is 100%. Some would argue that we won't have free will in heaven. If no free will and nothing impure can be in the presence of God, what led Lucifer to sin? If we do have free will, what will keep us from sinning?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...