Limited Atonement

What more hate? What else you got?

 

sorry...its not there. Try another book maybe. Or maybe a link

 

no verses? to bad

 

I would be glad to take this up if you would like to start a thread.

 

Oh boy! I get to use a line from one of my favorite movies!

"You're gonna need a bigger boat". :laugh:

I didn't move anywhere. I was just responding to a post about Noah.

1Jo 3:12 not as Cain [who] was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.

Abel's works were righteous! Cain was rejected BECAUSE his works were wicked.

Gal 3:6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

Now, before you go saying that I am advocating a works based salvation, we need to remember what James says about faith and works.

Jam 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Abel's works were the evidence of his faith. Abraham's works were evidence of his faith.

God is sovereign and I do NOT deny that, but it is clear that God declared these men righteous because of their faith in Him. They had faith before God chose them.









Why was Abraham choosen? Good works? God came to Abraham. why?



No one came...and God knew only those he chose would come.

Lets say there was a man name Joe Chin that lived about 200 miles from Noah. Could God have talked with Joe from heaven? Could God have saw fit to move on the heart of Joe and ask him to build another ark just as God did Noah? I'm sure you will say yes.

Did God? No.

Why?


The Bible says ALL of mankind was evil Noah was part of mankind. But Noah found grace. Why?



Is that not the T in TULIP?

 

They all found grace because they believed God. Their works were proof of their faith.

We are saved the same way. By the grace of God, through our faith. If you believe God, you will receive His grace (salvation).

 

Before Abram was saved...why did God come to Abram? Ur had no worship of the true God. For some reason God choose to come and tell Abram to leave his country. Based on what? What faith did he have before God came to him?

 

Both entries came out of Calvins Commentaries. The first one 1Jn2:2 The second was even copied and pasted out of Acts 16:31. This is on Ages software and you can get ALL of Calvins works for 14.95$ downloaded.

 

You mean that software. You need to even pay that price. Here is a free link....

http://www.biblestudyguide.org/comment/calvin/comm_index.htm

What is said that Calvinist would not believe?

t.

 

This is salvation plain and simple, not 1300 pages of tract and theology an unsaved person must read understand and sign legal documents that they understand the aforementioned tract/book
before they are saved. On this board that has been referred to as easy believism.

 

Christ accomplished what he came to accomplish. And neither did he limit his atoning sacrifice.

 

Bill, I'm afraid I misunderstood your post from the start. I felt like you was saying as you did about 1 john 2 that Calvin had changed his views on limited atonement. This of course is not true as has been shown.

However, much of what you said I would agree with. I do think that some that hold to the so called easy-believism are wrong. Repeating a prayer does not save a person. The heart must be changed by the Holy Spirit.

Salvation is very simple. It is all in the hands of God.

 

Um, didn't God look down and see that only Noah was "pure in his generations?" Yes, I believe that after examining the situation in which "all men did only sin continually," He did find one family that "qualified" according to obedience to receive grace.

That's kinda our situation too, James. We "come" obediently and He gives us grace.

Who else might God have "come" to? Do you know?

And what does Heb 11 have to say about the situation? "By faith, Abraham when he was called to go out ... obeyed..." Faith is merely "belief put into action." By faith Abraham obeyed. Get this: He "heard" the promises in Ur -- he obeyed -- he received the promises (grace) in Canaan.

So, do you want to be saved? Quicken your "belief" by "obedience" and receive the promises.

And so begins another episode of "Fractured Calvinism Tales." :laugh:

The Bible just got through saying that no one else was obedient to God -- pure. Noah was the only one qualified, James. Care to "make another run at" that storyline?

skypair

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, brother.
are you saying the atonement is universal and unlimited ?

 

Righteousness (of Christ) is not accounted to anyone without faith.
God saw Noah and Abraham as righteous because they had faith. He did not declare them righteous apart from their faith.

Calvinism as I understand it, says that man is regenerated first and then faith is excercised. This is not what the Bible says.

 

Salvation is easy and that lable will never change that truth. Here's How easy it is.

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Calvinism must deny this inorder for the tulip to make any sense. The tulip is complicated and made so by men who didn't believe it could be so simple.

They claimed no one could believe unless regenerated, and elected before creation and predestined to be Saved. They made election particular so that even Calvinist could not be sure he trully was saved. They limited atonement to that particular elect when scripture could not be more clear that Christ came to save the lost.
Then they condemn the sinners prayer. When sinners don't usually know how or what to pray. They deny that God uses us Christians to lead others to Christ. Even leading them in a prayer of confession that is unto Salvation.

What really bothers me is that most Calvinist actually hate the sinners prayer. I've asked myself why they hate it so. The only conclusion I can make is that they hate it because they themselves could not do it them selves. It convicts them and like all sinners who will not come to Christ they come to hate it because of that conviction.

The objection to the sinners prayer is nothing less than hatred of the truth. A denial of a conviction to confess publically.

Whosoever's can be saved by confession to Christ and of Christ. It's submission to His righteousness if they trully mean what is repeated in that prayer they are led in.

MB

 

John Wesley, who can hardly be called a Calvinist by any stretch of the imagination, writes of Ephesians 2:1 which says "and you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:

Please take note of the formatted texts, and compare it with what you said, or are trying to say, that an unregenerate man, dead in sins and trespasses, whether Jew or Gentile, is capable of producing faith that pleases God enough for God to regenerate him, in accordance with Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him".

The same Wesley says of Ephesians 2:8 which states "for by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"

Regeneration is an act of the Holy Spirit intended for those whom Christ redeemed. If faith comes first before regeneration, then Christ went up on that cross to save sinners who had faith and will have faith in Him, therefore faith becomes the pre-condition on which Christ saves.

Salvation, whether it is of the one that Christ secured for all the elect children of God who are in both sides of the soteriological spectrum, or whether it is of the type which one secures for himself in this plane we call time through obedience to the gospel, is always of grace, the latter by grace (of God) through faith (in Charist).

(I'm still groggy from a 9 hour drive from Buffalo to DC. if this was not presented coherently, please accept my apologies).

 

As one who also adheres to the principles outlined in TULIP, I would like to say that when I first converted from atheism they led me to a room and showed me the Roman way and made me recite the Sinner's Prayer and then double-checked to see if I undertood what happened and then triple-checked to make sure that I understood what I just prayed.

I nodded to all the questions, and the only reason was because I wanted to get out of there as quick as I can and get home, and read the Bible and about Jesus on my own . I had nothing in my heart for the sinner's prayer, neither did I care about the Roman road (though having been an Arminian/semiPelagian I did learn to memorize it).

My conviction came from the Holy Spirit, and so did my early understanding of who Christ is, who I am, and what He did in my behalf. I do not think there are Calvinists here who hate the sinner's prayer, per se, in the sense of how we understand the word "hate".

You ask yourself why (according to you) Calvinists hate the sinner's prayer, and you come to your conclusion based on your answers to your own questions. Have you asked a Calvinist on this board why, or any Calvinist you may know personally ? Maybe you'd find out much better if you do why they reject the sinner's prayer. From threads I've read here about the sinner's prayer, I seem to recall some of those who spoke their opinion against it were not even Calvinists.

Besides, the topic of this thread is limited atonement, not salvation.

 

Those who love darkness also hate the light neither do they come to the light.

Atonement is not Salvation, although you can't have one with out the other both parts of the greater whole.

Sorry the truth offended you. I'm really sorry you couldn't wait to get out of that room but after thinking about it I don't believe I would have went in to a room with any one. I'm not sure why they took you to another room. Were they ashamed you came forward? Or maybe they believed that you have to accept Christ in priviate. You see a public confession shows you are not ashamed.

I walked down that isle and got on my knees before God with everyone who might have been interested looking on. I'm not ashamed. Myself I didn't want to leave the church that day. I received peace, joy and rest for my weary soul The whole world looked different to me. Nothing was ever going to be the same and hasn't ever been the same since.
MB