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Featured Limited or Definite Atonement is the Gospel !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Apr 16, 2012.

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  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Our sins means God's People !

    During Paul's missionary Journey, he came to Corinth Acts 18:7-10

    7And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshiped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.

    8And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

    9Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak,[/B] and hold not thy peace:

    10For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.

    The Lord Jesus Christ told Paul that He had much People in that city, so He told Him to speak the word, the Gospel !

    Now the word speak in vs 9 is the greek word laleō and it means:


    to utter a voice or emit a sound

    2) to speak

    a) to use the tongue or the faculty of speech

    b) to utter articulate sounds

    3) to talk

    4) to utter, tell

    5) to use words in order to declare one's mind and disclose one's thoughts

    a) to speak

    It is also translated preach as here Mk 2:2

    2And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them.

    Acts 11:19

    19Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

    Acts 13:42

    42And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

    It is also the word speak used in the epistle of 1 Cor 2:6-7

    6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

    7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

    And this Gospel was not preached to everyone without exception, but to a chosen and called people in Corinth, Paul calls them " that are perfect" ! What does that mean ? For the sake of time and space, the perfect are those simply, who Christ offered himself in behalf of, and they are now capacitated to receive the Gospel Mystery. The word Perfect here is from the same word Perfect here Heb 10:14

    14For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

    Christ's offering, His Death alone sanctifies and perfects those He died for ! Heb 10:10,14

    There were some of God's Chosen People in Corinth that God wanted Paul to remain there and speak or Preach the word, the Mystery and Wisdom of God !

    Paul called them 1 Cor 1:26-28

    26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

    27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

    28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

    So Paul also had in mind when He said , that Christ died for our sins, Those that were the called, the chosen ! The perfect ! Made so by the offering of Christ.

    If the Gospel you received did not include a Particular Atonement message for the Church of God, the People of God [for I have much people in this city Jesus said] then you have not received the Gospel Paul preached, but another gospel !
     
    #21 savedbymercy, Apr 16, 2012
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    What a discombobulated tangled web of Scriptures you have strung together. Your method of hermeutics is to take any verse from anywhere that suits your particular theology, a theology that is estranged from orthodox Christianity, a theology that results in a loss of any practical testimony for Christ. That is truly sad.
     
    #22 DHK, Apr 16, 2012
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    the "Mystery" that God revealed to the ApostlePpaul was NOT that your view of election saves you, but that jesus was the messiah for BOTh the Jews/Gentiles, and that we are BOTH in same body, one with God thru Christ!

    that God was the God of both the Jews and Greeks!
     
    #23 Yeshua1, Apr 17, 2012
  4. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    dhk

    You can call it all the negative things you like, but you are speaking against the Word of God !

    If anyone believes that Our sins in 1 Cor 15:3 is not limited or restricted to a certain People, they do not believe the Gospel Paul Preached !
     
    #24 savedbymercy, Apr 17, 2012
  5. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    The Mystery was the Church ! So Paul Preached in His Gospel that Christ died for the sins of the Church, exclusively !
     
    #25 savedbymercy, Apr 17, 2012
  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    OK, Let's look at that logic.
    He was speaking to a specific certain people. They were called the Corinthians. It was the Corinthian Church that Paul was writing to. Thus if 1Cor.15:3 is limited it is limited to the Corinthians, and you (by your own logic) have no salvation!

    So who is speaking negative things against the Word of God now?
    Yes, it was spoken to the Corinthians, but applicable to every person on this earth, and all who accept the gospel shall be saved.
    For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    In the same chapter:
    1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
    --All who believe shall be made alive.
     
    #26 DHK, Apr 17, 2012
  7. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
    Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

    Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    There is the mystery that before that time they did not understand--how the Gentiles and the Jews could be one in Christ. Now the Gentiles are fellowheirs and of the same body. This is the mystery. They are partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.

    Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
     
    #27 DHK, Apr 17, 2012
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    More accurately, that thru death of Jesus, God would have both Gentiles/Jews saved thru same Messiah, in the New Covenant relationship established by death /resurrection of Jesus!
     
    #28 Yeshua1, Apr 17, 2012
  9. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    dhk

    We need to Look at scripture and then logic. Logic is no good if it's not according to the rule of the word of God !

    Yes, The Church, those He knew by revelation that Christ died for, and He knew that Christ had people there that needed to hear the word of God ! Acts 18:9-10

    9Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:

    10For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.

    Who said it was limited to the corintians ? I never said that one time. Corinth was merely one of many places that God had elect in paul's travels and missionary journey's !

    It was applicable to member's of Christ Body the Church on the Earth !

    Everyone in the whole world is not Christ's Body the Church, or Sheep !

    Though they be scattered throughout the Earth !


    Yes, whoever called upon the Name of the Lord, Paul knew they were saved by Christ's blood. That was an evidence !

    The Apostles were given to know in their endeavours, that after preaching, if the hearers gave evidence of Faith in the Word preached, then those are the ones Christ saved by His Blood !

    Your logic is faulty and has disproved nothing I have stated !
     
    #29 savedbymercy, Apr 17, 2012
  10. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Christ gave His Life for the Church. Eph 5:25. His death was only for the Church, which was comprised of both jewish elect and gentile elect from the masses of the world !
     
    #30 savedbymercy, Apr 17, 2012
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus death was actually atonement for ALL who EVER was saved by God, on the OT/NT/Last days etc!
     
    #31 Yeshua1, Apr 17, 2012
  12. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Thats the same as the Church !
     
    #32 savedbymercy, Apr 17, 2012
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, for the OT believers NOT part of the NT church!

    Nor those saved after the Rapture of the Church!
     
    #33 Yeshua1, Apr 17, 2012
  14. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Yes, the OT Believers are Part of the Church, The Seed of Abraham Gal 3:29

    29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Are you denying that Abraham did not belong to Christ ?
     
    #34 savedbymercy, Apr 17, 2012
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, saying that the Body of Christ, his Bride, the Church are those saved since time of Christ forward!
     
    #35 Yeshua1, Apr 17, 2012
  16. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    So let the record be known, this person denies that Abraham belongs to Christ !

    Christ was the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16

    16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    And Christ , Abraham's Seed is the Head of the Church, His Body ! Eph 5:23

    For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

    Now is the Christ in Gal 3:16, Abraham's Seed, the same as the Christ in Eph 5:23 the Head of the Church ?
     
    #36 savedbymercy, Apr 17, 2012
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    As you can see the above passage in Ephesians has nothing to do with Abraham. The bride is composed of NT believers as the passage in Ephesians indicates.
     
    #37 DHK, Apr 18, 2012
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Although I am a strong believer in Particular Redemption (Definite Atonement) in this case I am going to have to disagree with you regarding "the Church."

    You have confused the Kingdom of God on Earth, also called the Family of God, with the church.

    The church is local and visible, a called out assembly meeting with the bishops and deacons, composed of baptized believers.

    The Kingdom/Family of God is universal and invisible, composed of all the redeemed.

    :)
     
    #38 TCassidy, Apr 18, 2012
  19. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    tc

    You are disagreeing with the Testimony of scripture !
     
    #39 savedbymercy, Apr 18, 2012
  20. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    It has everything to do, Christ, the Head of the Church is Abraham's Seed ! You deny that as well ? Gal 3:16

    16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    Now is that Christ the same as this one ? Eph 5:23

    23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
     
    #40 savedbymercy, Apr 18, 2012
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