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Listen to the Kingdom Rewards Conference

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by DeaconLew, Mar 18, 2005.

  1. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    That being said. Please keep in mind the following. Dr. Bob and I are Historic Northern Baptists. To be frank, the position represented by many of the posters on this thread is not part of our theological DNA.
     
  2. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    Personally, I often wonder about even putting "Baptist" in front of what I am, (Christian) much less all those other words. I think the words are proportionally less important as they increase in number.

    Lacy the baptistic Christian
     
  3. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    DeaconLew,

    You discuss of 'Till' with verses.

    You quoted of Luke 12:46. This verse 46 say nothing about being temporary, Christ clearly shall tell to a lazy servant, that he shall be cast away being tornment(suffering) with unbelievers. Also, this verse 46 does not saying that lazy servant shall be released out of it beyond after Christ shall saying to them.

    Matt. 5:26 - "come out there, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing" does not prove it is purgatory doctrine or millennial exclusion. This verse is context with 25 is speak about to forgive person immediately, if a person have sinned against you while you living. Also, verse 26 does not relate to death person. This verse relate to our practical living that we should to forgive one another always.

    If suppose purgatory teaching or millennial exlcusion teaching is correct. Then, my question, HOW can a dead person pay the debt- literally??????? I mean physical death person, not spiritually.

    Mt. 8:12 says nothing about temporary. This verse tells us, people shall be cast away into outer darkness is clearly speak of everlatsing punishment. Also, this verse does not saying of the promise for the children of the kingdom shall be released out of the outer darkness beyond it.

    Mt. 22:13 telling the same as Mt. 8:12, this verse says nothing that a man shall not be released or freed out of it beyond after the king commanded them to take a man away into it.

    Mt. 24:51 telling the same as Mt. 8:12; Mt. 22:13. This verse does not saying that a servant shall be released out of it beyond about the judgement day.

    Mt. 25:30 telling the same as Mt. 8:12; Mt. 22:13; & Mt. 24:51. This verse saying nothing that a lazy shall be finally being released or freed out of it beyond after the judgement day.

    Luke 13:28 tells the same as Mt. 8:12, this verse does not saying that a person shall be finally being released or freed out of it beyond after the judgment day.

    There is no verse find anywhere in the Bible gives us the promise that a lazy servant shall be free out of the outer dakrness, or freed or released out from the "second death". "Second death" IS everlasting punishment suffering in the lake of fire. Rev. 20:14-15 simple saying it. You have to accept what Rev. 20:14-15 saying.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  4. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    How does a man in prison pay off a debt?
     
  5. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Today's of judigical system, when a judge shall saying to a guilt person, he have two choices to pay $10,000 or sentenced 1 year in prison. Guilt person have no choice, but send to jail. Some cases, while a guilt person in the jail, do have works, to pay off for the debt or charge or fine follow the judge's order till a perosn get pay off.

    I am sure that duirng Christ's day, many people who are in jail, they have to find ways to work to make money to pay the debt then get free out of the jail.

    This passage have do nothing with hell, or after death. This passage is speak of to forgive one another more often with compassion.

    Now, my question is, HOW can a dead person in the grave shall pay the debt???

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  6. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    I will ask my mother a question about a guilty person. Because my mother is a lawyer :D I am sure that my mom will explaining to me about it. Right now, my mom is on the vacation with my Dad in Florida for about 2 weeks. Wait till my mother gets home form vacation, I will ask her about it. Then I will let you know about it.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  7. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    If a dead person in the grave can beg for a drop of water, I don't think I would be shocked to find them breaking rocks for a thousand years either. [​IMG]
     
  8. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    James,

    You are funny.

    The rich man of Luke chapter 16 is now currently suffering in the flame for about 2000 years. He is already struck down there, no way for him to escape from it. He have no power to pay the debt to get out of hell. He already locked down there. Even, he is already reserved await for the coming judgement day, THEN, hell shall be cast into the lake of fire, a rich man shall suffering there forever and ever.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  9. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Hell will be cast into the lake of fire AFTER it gives up the dead that are in it. Then those will be judged for their works, and those who are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. You do not know if the rich man is saved or not. You don't like to think that a believer could ever suffer his fate, but the text plainly tells us why he is there, and it is not for not believing on Jesus. But then, you do believe in works salvation, so I wouldn't expect you to believe any differently than what you say about the rich man.

    When a man is accused of a crime, he goes to jail. This happens before his trial. He may be let out, or he may not, depends on the judge. Should it shock us to find out that the Lord knows where to put us while we await the judgment? He knows our hearts better than we do.
     
  10. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    James,

    I will continue discuss with you more tomorrow. Because I need go to sleep now, get ready go to work 3rd shift job tonight.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  11. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    As this thread is about the Conference, I'll not hijack it for very long.
    BOMBSHELL!!!
    To date, nobody, (Baptist or otherwise) has been able to Scripturally show that God's displeasure and chastisement upon unfaithful CHRISTIANS end's at the death of said believer.
    How is it that death automatically sanctifies the unfaithful?
    I have YET to see a Scriptural answer for this question?
    Can anybody, (self proclaimed scholar or not) show that death [/B]sanctifies[/B] the disobedient?

    NOT !

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  12. R. J.

    R. J. New Member

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    You will find most of the answers at the following link:
    http://p079.ezboard.com/fthemidweekrapturefrm166.showMessage?topicID=5.topic

    This link will take you to a refutation of the book "The Rod - Will God Spare It?" by J. D. Faust.
     
  13. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    From that site:
    Nice. Very thorough. I know I am convinced.

    Lacy
     
  14. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    R.J.;
    Thank you for your efforts. ;)

    There is one problem with that link. It is unadulterated Ruckmanesque diatribe. Whenever he (the author) tries to refute the doctrine, the BEST he can come up with is the same old vomit that Doc Ruckman spues. Please, do not misunderstand me. I believe "The Junkyard Dog" (as he likes to call himself) has done some good things in bringing the Version issue to the fore. But I do NOT nor ever WILL agree with his constant spueing of venom. NO MAN saved or otherwise ought to behave like that. So let it be noted that I had a very hard time reading the portions of that post as long as I could stomach it.

    Now, to the subject. That man's comments effectively have stolen about 1/3 of your New Testament from you by DISCOUNTING 9 books. He does this in the name of "Pauline Dispensationalism". MAJOR ERROR! "ALL Scripture is given..." And "Study to shew THYSELF APPROVED unto God..." So we see, that in order to refute this doctrine one must get his pen knife out.

    That is not gonna work with THIS (me) boy!

    Care to answer my original question yourself, using Scriptural truth?

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  15. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    Jim,

    Touche'

    Lacy
     
  16. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    What part of my sin did not get judged and paid for 100% - no punishment for me - by Jesus Christ on the cross.

    Every sin that I do is paid for. The judgment on Calvary was complete.
    The only way I can be punished for my sin, the only way for God to judge me and throw me into hell, is if the work of Calvary was defective. And then I would die in my sins.

    Again, I ask you with such abherrent theology NOT to post on the Fundamental Forum. You are so FAR from orthodox Christianity that you mock the name by posting here.

    Take it to the theology forum, please.
     
  17. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Paid for or not, I submit that if you are sinning, you are in bondage to sin. Christ said if you continue in His word, you would know the truth and the truth would set you free. Why are we supposed to believe that the truth is you can never stop sinning?
     
  18. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus New Member

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    Bro Newman,
    Have you stopped sinning?

    Thanks --------Bart
     
  19. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    The moderators are nicer here. ;)

    Lacy
     
  20. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    I'm not going to go that far, but I have through the grace of God overcome a lot of things in my life that used to seem insurmountable. But I know that if the Son sets you free, then you are free indeed. Any sin in my life is not due to Christ failing to deliver me, it is me failing of the grace of God that has already been provided for me.

    John 8:34-36
    34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
    35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
    36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

    This is not speaking of a positional freedom, ie God sees no sin when He looks at me, this is free indeed. If Christ said it, it must be true.
     
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