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Listen to the Kingdom Rewards Conference

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by DeaconLew, Mar 18, 2005.

  1. carlaimpinge

    carlaimpinge New Member

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    You gave Matt.5,7,8,13,18,22,25. You want me to write a commentary on Matthew here on the BB?

    I'll deal specifically with one, Matt 5. Christ is directly addresseng his DISCIPLES! He warns THEM! They are warned of Hell and prison (Synonymous terms.) "Till" implies that it is temporary. Nowhere in the passage (or any other)does it say, they will be cast in alive. You made that up.

    It says "both body and soul". I suppose that could mean alive. There is no NT example of a person being cast into Hell alive. I'm pretty sure the fires of the underworld would annhilate a natural body. The obvious answer is that it is a resurrected body. Who has a resurrected body before the GWT? Only Christians. This warning cannot apply to anyone else.

    Who do you believe is cast bodily (alive)in to Hell after the trib? You are saying that they pluck out eyes and cut off hands to get saved? How can they get saved that way? Those poor "Jews in the trib" (or whoever) haven't got a snowballs chance in the LOF if that's how. (John 14:6)

    If you are referring to those raptured out then I agree. Rapture verses have warnings (watch, be ready, etc.)attached to them. They don't say, "relax because you are saved".

    But what about those who don't watch and pray that they are accounted worthy to escape. THEY DON"T ESCAPE. Again, nobody ever gets saved by watching and praying. These warnings are directed toward the saved.

    Wheat gets harvested when it is ripe. (1 Cor 15:23)

    continued:
    </font>[/QUOTE]Lacy,

    The disciples AT THAT TIME are not saved as we are today. (Matt.3) You “think” all disciples are believers, but they aren’t. DISCIPLES CAN QUIT BELIEVING at this time, and IN THE FUTURE TIME, of which the Lord Jesus is speaking IN THE PARABLES. (Matt.13, 20,21,22,24,25) Awaiting his posttribulational coming.

    John 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

    John 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

    John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

    They were AWAITING the promise of the Spirit which was not given. (John 7)

    John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

    The passage in Matt.5 concerns the BEHAVIOUR of Jews towards their brethren, NOT fellow members of the body of Christ.

    Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

    Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    Matthew 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

    Matthew 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

    Matthew 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

    The Lord gives two different teachings in the passage. It concerns AN OFFERING (a gift) at the altar! That is a SACRIFICE son, as found within the book of Matthew. One teaching concerns you being angry with your brother and you are hauled up before the council. You can be FINED for this. That's the prison teaching. The other concerns you CALLING him a fool at that time. YOU WILL BE IN DANGER OF HELLFIRE. That is a LIVING JEW, not a dead man. The prison concerns the kingdom aspect that there will be RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT within the kingdom of heaven. RIGHTEOUS JUDGES will be on the thrones! (Matt.19, 12)

    I didn’t make anything up. CASTING INTO HELL deals with the living, not the dead, when Christ comes back in those contexts.

    The EXAMPLES are given Lacy in the NT. What do you think we are looking at in the chapters? They are cast into hell in Matt.25. BODY AND SOUL! It’s the LIVING, like I said.

    Yes, it is BETTER to enter into life with your one eye out and your hand cut off than being CAST INTO HELL. It’s when the kingdom of heaven shows up. THEY ENTER INTO LIFE. (Matt.25:46) The Lord will restore their eyes and hands, remember? (Isaiah 35)

    It concerns their REJECTION of falsity that goes on during that time. (Matt.24)

    The GATHERED are those of Matt.24 Lacy, NOT US! We are gathered BEFORE THE TRIBULATION. (1 Thess.1, 4-5, 2 Thess.2) They go through the tribulation and are gathered. ONLY THE LIVING ARE GATHERED in Matt.24, not the dead. (He that endureth unto the end shall be saved.) THEY ARE ALIVE. Those who don’t watch ARE those who are KILLED at the destruction which falls at the end of the tribulation. (Matt.24)

    You got the “wrong crop” Lacy. There is ONE BEFORE THAT. (Barley)

    In Christ Jesus,
    Carl
     
  2. carlaimpinge

    carlaimpinge New Member

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  3. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Carl,

    Lacy is right. Matthew chapter 5 does apply to us as individuals. Christ was speak to them. All of them as audit were Jews, yet, this passage always apply to ANY individual either Jew or Gentile. Yes. Christ warns to us. No way that we can ignore the warning from Jesus Christ. Many baptists dislike what Christ saying. The reason is because of security salvation teaching, and unconditional salvation.

    Carl, I do not agree with you. Your teaching almost like hype-dispensationalism to me. God only have a plan of salvation for mankind from the beginning to present, and always be the same in the future at the end of the age. Throughout all centuries, many were saved by their FAITH, just same as we have faith in Christ.

    But, I agree with Carl, these passages are not speaking of temporary punishment like as Matt. 25:30, etc. all these are speak of everlasting punihsment.

    But, Carl, many passages in the Bible are warnings, that you think these are not apply to us. You are wrong. You seem avoid or dislike what Christ actual saying. You have to accept what Christ saying, believe it, and take heed warnings from Jesus Christ.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  4. carlaimpinge

    carlaimpinge New Member

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    That is certainly an elaborate scheme you have in order to wriggle out from under the Lords CLEAR teaching. The context (Luke 21) was the trib. Christ said if we watch and pray, we might be accounted worthy to escape all these things. The pre-trib, conditional rapture may not fit into your "pauline thingy" but it is plainly taught in the Bible.

    You are so stuck on the Darby/Scofield notion of "The" rapture that you cannot see more than one event. The "rapture" is like a harvest. Christ the first fruits. (Single sheaf-no leaven), First fruits (pre-trib, mid-tribs -which would include mid-week)two cakes offered with leaven, General Harvest - Resurrection at second coming (see below), Gleanings, those saved after the general resurrection (possibly those in natural bodies during the Kingdom - Is 65:20)

    Still LYING I see, while namecalling, and identifying an INDEPENDENT BAPTIST PREACHER as a Posttribulationist. You're just as ignorant of the term, as you are the Bible. :D :D

    I am not only post-trib, I am also mid and pre-trib. You see I might know more about your position that you do mine. [​IMG]

    This is going to be very difficult so pay attention: There are seven trumpets sounded in the Trib. The first is not the last because there is a second. The second is not the last because there is a third. The third is not the last because there is a fourth.(If you need me to cover the rest let me know I'll PM you.) But when we get to the seventh, an amazing thing happens. The seventh is the last because there is NO EIGHTH! Most PCs have a calculator function under "accessories" if you need to check my math.

    You are right. I don't understand your position. You just confused me. You said on another post: "The body of Christ doesn't go through the tribulation. Paul taught a pretrib gathering of the BODY. (1 Thess.1,4-5, 2 Thess.2) We are delivered from the wrath to come, which is the GREAT TRIBULATION."
    1 Thess clearly teaches a resurrection and subsequent rapture.(4:16,17) So how do you reconcile the two statements.? No beast in the Great Trib?

    Rev 11:15 clearly shows that the 7th Trump signals the coming of the Kingdom.

    Continued:
    </font>[/QUOTE]Lacy,

    That’s no scheme, but the WORDS of the Holy Spirit. The gathering before the wrath to come is a doctrine given to Paul by the ASCENDED Lord Jesus Christ. It is NOT TAUGHT by the Lord during his ministry. That doctrine is one of the mysteries given unto him. (1 Cor.4, 15, 2 Cor.12)

    The people do not ESCAPE by rapture, but by RUNNING.

    Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

    Luke 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

    Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

    I don’t TEACH the Scofield-Darby notion of the rapture. They taught it was before Daniel’s week. (preweek) It isn’t by ANY VERSE.

    No, the rapture is a PAULINE TEACHING of the DEAD AND LIVING being caught up together. (Nobody teaches that except Paul.)

    The RESURRECTION is likened unto a HARVEST at VARIOUS SEASONS. (See Paul. 1 Cor.15)

    Christ the firstfruits (Mar-Apr) Passover
    Those at his coming (May-June) Pentecost
    Then cometh the end (Sept-Oct) Tabernacles

    Three times a YEAR will all males present themselves before the Lord.

    Paul’s MYSTERY concerns a RESURRECTION. (1 Cor.15)

    Gleaning aren’t gathered, but LEFT. (You are holding to too much Larkin.)

    Leviticus 19:9 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.

    No, if you are teaching what Faust does, I know it. I know there are NO VERSES for a PREWEEK RAPTURE of the body of Christ. I know there are NO VERSES for a POSTTRIB RAPTURE of the body of Christ. There are verses for a midweek rapture of the body (2 Thess.2, 1 Thess.1, 4-5), and a posttrib gathering OF THE LIVING JEWS. (Matt.24, Mark 13) Dead ones aren’t GATHERED, but resurrected AFTER Christ comes to earth.

    Sorry brother. It’s nice that you want to help the Holy Spirit out, but he doesn’t need your help. You have “subjectively” INTERPOLATED last into Rev.11 and SEVENTH into 1 Cor.15. That won’t work. PAUL DEFINES LAST as SECOND in the same epistle, the same chapter, and in the same context previous to his usage of the last trump. (Check it out.) The ONLY TWO NUMBERS which reference last in the Holy Bible are SECOND and EIGHT. (Check it out.) They ARE IDENTIFIED by being NAMED last. (If you need the verses, I’ll send them to you.)

    Other than that, the TRUMP is the SOUND from the trumpet. (Look at the verse, teacher.) The sound is NOT the instrument from which it comes.

    If the 7th trumpet is the last trump, according to your theology, that would put the body going through the tribulation. The 7th trumpet occurs AFTER the prophecy of Moses and Elijah, which ends near the END of Daniel’s week.

    Rev.11 shows the ANNOUNCEMENT that the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ. There is a SPACE for this trumpet SOUNDS LONG over DAYS. (Rev.10) This gives time for the VIALS to be poured out. After they are finished, the Lord COMES from heaven as in Rev.19.

    In Christ Jesus,
    Carl
     
  5. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    You did make it up. Casting into Hell deals with the disciples who were his direct audience! Jesus looked them in the eye and said, "YOU". How can "You, Peter. You, John, etc." mean, "You, living guy at the end or the trib"?

    There is not a Jew, Gentile, or Christian in Hell bodily prior to the JSOC. (Ps 106:18) The only folks who are in Hell are DEAD! Their body and soul are separated.

    The only folks it could possibly refer to are Christians who will recieve a resurrected body. By the time unbelievers are resurrected up to be judged, Hell is already floating at the bottom of the LOF.(Rev 20:14)

    It's the RESURRECTED, like I said.

    Do you think Peter and John got saved by cutting off their hand? They must have, seeing they didn't get eaten by an earthquake. Do you honestly think that "the living, not the dead, when Christ comes back" will have gotten saved by plucking out their eye? If it wasn't good enough for OT saints, how could it be good enough for Trib saints?

    Salvation by works? It never happened to an unsaved man. You have to be saved by faith before you can be saved by works. The Passover lamb preceded the Red sea. The altar preceded the laver. The "it is finished" preceded the "water and blood". Faith alone must precede Faith + Works. In every dispensation, sub-dispensation and semi-sub-hyper-dispensation.

    Love, Lacy
     
  6. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    The word "Body" is a picture and it means different things in different contexts. So you would have to be more specific for me to discus it.

    It would put only that part (of the saved) through the trib who are: 1) Not dead before the trib, 2) Not raptured out before or during the trib, 3)not killed during the trib. Of course I believe there will be some who are alive and remain at the very end when Christ returns.

    Sounds good to me. I hear ya. (And the sound you are making.) There is no problem with that and what I am saying.

    Lacy
     
  7. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    I realize that you don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. I only meant that you can only see one "The" rapture. If I said "The Harvest", anybody who ever sat next to his daddy on a big silver Gleaner would know that it aint a one day deal. When I cut that first sample to see if it's dry enough to cut, the harvest aint over. Just that sample is over.

    Love, Lacy

    PS. Gleanings are gathered. What do you think they were left there for Boaz?
     
  8. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    Too late to edit.
     
  9. carlaimpinge

    carlaimpinge New Member

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    You did make it up. Casting into Hell deals with the disciples who were his direct audience! Jesus looked them in the eye and said, "YOU". How can "You, Peter. You, John, etc." mean, "You, living guy at the end or the trib"?

    There is not a Jew, Gentile, or Christian in Hell bodily prior to the JSOC. (Ps 106:18) The only folks who are in Hell are DEAD! Their body and soul are separated.

    The only folks it could possibly refer to are Christians who will recieve a resurrected body. By the time unbelievers are resurrected up to be judged, Hell is already floating at the bottom of the LOF.(Rev 20:14)

    It's the RESURRECTED, like I said.

    Do you think Peter and John got saved by cutting off their hand? They must have, seeing they didn't get eaten by an earthquake. Do you honestly think that "the living, not the dead, when Christ comes back" will have gotten saved by plucking out their eye? If it wasn't good enough for OT saints, how could it be good enough for Trib saints?

    Salvation by works? It never happened to an unsaved man. You have to be saved by faith before you can be saved by works. The Passover lamb preceded the Red sea. The altar preceded the laver. The "it is finished" preceded the "water and blood". Faith alone must precede Faith + Works. In every dispensation, sub-dispensation and semi-sub-hyper-dispensation.

    Love, Lacy
    </font>[/QUOTE]Lacy,

    Don’t evade the verses. They will ONLY OCCUR to the living at the return of the Lord. DEAD PEOPLE ARE NOT CAST INTO HELL.


    Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

    Matthew 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

    Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Matthew 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

    Lacy, you’re IGNORING the DUALITY of the Lord’s PRESENTATION of the kingdom. They didn’t receive it. THEY COULD HAVE WENT into the week of Daniel, but didn’t! Matt.24 is spoken to them AS IF they were going! They didn’t! Israel didn’t repent, and God called out Paul, due to their FALL. (Rom.11, Acts 22, 26)

    Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

    Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

    Matthew 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

    Matthew 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    Matthew 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,

    Matthew 11:17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.

    Matthew 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

    Matthew 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

    Matthew 11:20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

    Matthew 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

    Matthew 11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

    Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

    Matthew 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

    Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

    Did you notice in those verses how the Lord SPEAKS of what COULD HAVE OCCURRED, but DIDN’T?

    I SAID that Jesus Christ casts people INTO HELL bodily WHEN HE RETURNS to set up his kingdom. You ignored another verse. In Matt.25, they go into hell. BODY AND SOUL. (Other than that, you’re STILL WRONG.) The people of Number 16 dropped into the PIT, that’s hell, BODILY! It was BEFORE Christ returned!

    Unbelievers are FLOATING in hell DURING the kingdom. (Isaiah 66) They can be SEEN. The LIVING, body and soul, are cast into hell. (Matt.25)

    The eye and the hand is the Lord’s statement concerning their ENDURANCE during that time. Do what you have to do to ENDURE unto the end.

    RIGHTEOUSNESS and JUSTIFICATION are two different matters. A man needs FAITH and WORKS in the OT and under the Mosaic Covenant to have both of them. YOU ONLY NEED ONE. (Faith)

    Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

    James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

    James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

    James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

    James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    The body of Christ is CREATED after the death of the Lord Jesus through the BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit, which came in Acts 2. (Acts 1-2, 1 Cor. 12, Eph.2) That body is gathered before the tribulation. It does not enter INTO THE DAY OF THE LORD. (1 Thess.5, Rev.1)

    I referred to your breakdown. That’s why I gave what Paul said CONCERNING the harvest, and the Exodus quote of 3 times for males to appear. There are THREE RESURRECTIONS, but only one GATHERING, as Paul taught. (Living and dead together) It concerns a MYSTERY resurrection.

    The TIMING is what Paul is emphasizing. FIRSTRUITS and END dates the times. (Ex.23:14-17)

    The gathering of Matt.24 is NOT THE BODY OF CHRIST, but LIVING Jews who have endured unto the end. They are GATHERED by summer, which is Pentecost! (Matt.24: 31-33) They are gathered when Christ comes at the end of the tribulation GOING BACK TO HEAVEN with him. (John 10, 14, Matt.25, Luke 12) The slothful and wicked servants are KILLED at that time. (Matt.24) That appearance is before Armageddon.

    That’s why I emphasized the LIVING being REWARDED before the DEAD. (Matt.16, Rev.22) The living believers and wicked servants (JEWISH) are rewarded at Rev.11, but the DEAD JEWISH believers have to WAIT until Christ is on the ground. The thrones are the LIVING, while the dead are raised to JOIN THEM. (Rev.20)

    Boaz didn’t gather the gleanings. He HARVESTED. Ruth gleaned.

    Again, the RAPTURE doesn’t have parts. The HARVEST does. Passover, Weeks, Tabernacles. (Those THREE concern Israel.) Paul’s is a mystery.

    In Christ Jesus,
    Carl
     
  10. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    I'm not wrong. I anticipated your argument when I gave the reference(Ps 106:18) that shows that their natural bodies burned up. So all that is left is soul. I did not ignore anything. I said the same thing. BODY AND SOUL. I just pointed out that a resurrected body is perhaps the only type of body that could abide the fires of the underworld for 5 minutes much less 1000 years or more.

    Really, would hellfire be anything but more efficient than say . . .burning at the stake, in obliterating a natural body. If "destroy" means "annihilate" (which it surely would a natural body), then how could we switch and say the "destroyed" soul would forever abide the fires of Hell.


    Lacy
     
  11. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    DUH! You would have accused my of all kinds of derisiveness if I had called you Ruth. I'm the one with the funny name. Nobody mistakes "Carl" for a Ruth! [​IMG]
     
  12. DeaconLew

    DeaconLew New Member

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    Hebrews is written to saved Jews! These Jews have Timothy as their brother:
    Heb 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you.

    The Rapture(s) Let me clarify
    1Cor 15 is in reference to the final (last) gathering. (post trib - pre wrath)
    1Thes 4 is in reference to the final (last) gathering. (post trib - pre wrath)

    Rev 5:9, 10 have believers in heaven glorified before the seals are opened which is the start of the trib. Hence pretrib rapture.
    Luke 21:36 Believers can escape all things. What things? The entire trib (read the context) Hence pretrib rapture.

    Rev 7:13 Some folks during the trib, have come out having made their robes white. Hence midtrib rapture.
    Rev 14 The 144K are now standing before the throne. In Rev 7 they were sealed. Hence midtrib rapture.

    I agree with the three times a year presentation. That does not mean there were not more at God's discretion. Certainly no less.

    What say ye?
    -DeaconLew
     
  13. carlaimpinge

    carlaimpinge New Member

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    I'm not wrong. I anticipated your argument when I gave the reference(Ps 106:18) that shows that their natural bodies burned up. So all that is left is soul. I did not ignore anything. I said the same thing. BODY AND SOUL. I just pointed out that a resurrected body is perhaps the only type of body that could abide the fires of the underworld for 5 minutes much less 1000 years or more.

    Really, would hellfire be anything but more efficient than say . . .burning at the stake, in obliterating a natural body. If "destroy" means "annihilate" (which it surely would a natural body), then how could we switch and say the "destroyed" soul would forever abide the fires of Hell.


    Lacy
    </font>[/QUOTE]Of course, the NATURAL body is destroyed, ALONG with the soul. That's what the TEXT says. (Matt.10) He can destroy BOTH body and soul in hell. He does that WHEN HE CASTS THEM in at the BEGINNING of the kingdom, when they are ALIVE. Everlasting DESTRUCTION comes upon the LIVING. (2 Thess.1)

    The Lord OPENS EYES whereby one can SEE into the spiritual realm, brother. (2 Kings 2,6) The people who come to Jerusalem will be able to see them. It will be a TESTIMONY to LIVE RIGHT, DO GOOD, and KEEP THE LAW which goes forth from Jerusalem. Matt.5 has nothing to do with us. It concerns those WITHIN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

    Those who DIE beforehand and experience the sleep of death WAKE UP in hell. (Luke 16)

    ONLY THE LIVING are "cast" into hell.
     
  14. carlaimpinge

    carlaimpinge New Member

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    DeaconLew,

    Hebrews is written to HEBREWS, the nation of Israel, which contain believers and UNBELIEVERS. (Heb.6,10) It is specifically written to Jewish believers who believed BEFORE Paul, as found in Heb. 2,10.

    They are the ISRAEL of God, the church of the firstborn. (Heb.2,12, Gal.6) Timothy is not among them, for he is a MEMBER of the body of Christ SAVED after Paul. (Acts 16, 1 Tim.1)

    The gathering is pre-trib at the MIDST of the week, not post. (1 Thess.1,4-5, 2 Thess.2)

    The escape of Luke 21 is NOT by a pretrib rapture, but by RUNNING.

    The body of Christ is not found in Revelation, nor are elders the body. That is speculative. Rev.5 is part of the PROPHETIC VISION which John saw. The elders are representatives of the 12 Jewish tribes, and the 12 GENTILE divisions of the WORLD which are ON EARTH during the tribulation. (Deut.32, Rev.7)

    The midtrib designation is a farce. The tribulation STARTS at the midst of Daniel's week, by BOTH prooftexts. (Matt.24, Mark 13)

    The Jews and great mulitude come OUT of great tribulation. That is AFTER THE MIDST OF THE WEEK! (Rev.7)

    What it means is that 3 times a year all males will present themselves to the Lord. (Nothing less and nothing more BY THAT STATEMENT.)

    In Christ Jesus,
    Carl
     
  15. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    1611avjim,

    I'm back.

    You say:
    I better to explain on the kingdom more clarify. Firstly, I do believe in the kingdom of God/heaven, because the Bible tells us so. Most people and Jews believe the kingdom of heaven(book of Matthew) shall be a literal physical on the earth for 1,000 years at the second coming. In other word, Jews believe God will take over the world, and rule over them in Jerusalem as world's capitol or headquarter.

    One of the Pharisees came to Christ, and asked him, when they shall see the kingdom of God? - Luke 17:20. Pharisees were not thinking of the kingdom of God is so called, "millennial kingdom", or a thousand years of kingdom. They were thinking of literal physical kingdom on earth, that God shall take over all nations include Roman Empire, to be rule in Jerusalem as world's capitol. Christ said to them, "The kingdom of God cometh NOT with observation: Neither shall they say, 'Lo here! or, lo there! for behold, the kingdom of God is WITHIN you."

    Christ was talking about the kingdom of God is not sighting as physically, He says that is within us as spiritually. The kingdom of God/heaven is spiritually, it is from above. John 3:3,7 tell us, we must be born again from above, speak of have eternal life-salvation.

    The Bible never saying anything that 'kingdom of God/heaven' is so called, "millennial kinbgdom". Because nothing find anywhere in the Bible saying that the kingdom of God/heaven shall be last for only a thousand years limited. Often in the Bible telling us, 'heaven of God/heaven' is speak of heavenly things, not earthly things. Alos, it is speak of our future destiny that we shall spend of have eternal life with Christ.

    Faust and others misinterpreting of Gal. 5:19-21, that they saying, who do these evil things will not enter millennial kingdom. That is their misintepreting. Apostle Paul clearly telling us, if any perosn who doing wicked things, cannot enter have eternal life, will go into everlasting punishment - lake of fire- very simple and plain same with Rev. 21:8; and 22:15.

    No excuse for you can understand and read Gal. 5:19-20 named of the list of the SINS what they committed, shall not enter eternal life, shall go enter everlasting punishment - lake of fire. Also, Gal. 5:21 does not saying, 'a thousand years'. Gal. 5:21 simple telling us, if any perosn who doing wicked things will not enter eternal life, will go enter everlasting punishment according Matt. 25:41, 46.

    Teaching of Millennial Exclusion is unbiblical, and heretical teaching. Again, I tell you, no way you can prove us that a lazy servant shall be fianlly release or free out of the outer darkness or hell beyond the judgement day in the Bible. You really do need a clear solid verse to support millennial exclusion teaching that a lazy servant shall be finally being relase out of the outer darkness beyond the judgement day.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  16. paidagogos

    paidagogos New Member

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    2 Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
    12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
    13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
    14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
    15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
    16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
     
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