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Looking for Some Proof - Is it there somewhere?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by GordonSlocum, Jan 16, 2007.

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  1. GordonSlocum

    GordonSlocum New Member

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    Here is an article I found about Calvin. Perhaps someone on here will know if John Calvin repented of his "murder/s". What is your take on this?

    http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/reformers.htm



    JOHN CALVIN WAS A MURDERER

    Not only was the founder of Calvinism, John Calvin, a great deceiver, but he was also a murderer!


    Here are John Calvin's own words about Michael Servetus:

    "If he(Servetus) comes(to Geneva), I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight."

    "I hope that the verdict will call for the death penalty."

    In Geneva, on October 27, 1553, Michael Servetus was tied to a stake and was burned slowly to death:

    www.encyclopedia.com/articlesnew/11716.html


    Here is what John Calvin had to say about Michael Servetus after he was burned to death:

    "Many people have accused me of such ferocious cruelty that(they allege) I would like to kill again the man I have destroyed. Not only am I indifferent to their comments, but I rejoice in the fact that they spit in my face."

    "Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death will knowingly and willingly incur their very guilt."


    John Calvin was not a Christian, my friends, but he was an egotistical tyrant and a cold-blooded killer!

    How anyone can follow the warped teachings of this deranged monster from the past is beyond belief.

    A man named Sebastian Castellio wrote against what Calvin did to Servetus and he made this tremendous statement:

    "To kill a man is not to defend a doctrine. It is to kill a man!"

    Castellio paid a great price for standing up to Calvin the tyrant. He was hounded and persecuted by John Calvin until his death.

    Murderers like John Calvin and Martin Luther are not Christians:

    1 John 3:15- ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

    For more on Calvin see Calvinism and The Servetus Murder

    In five years, 1542-46, Geneva, with 16,000 inhabitants, had fifty-seven executions and seventy-six banishments. All these sentences were sanctioned by John Calvin.

    Heard a sermon on David tonight. We all know that David confessed his sins concerning adultery and murder, but does anyone know if there is a historical record of Calvin ever confessing to his Murder/s?
     
    #1 GordonSlocum, Jan 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2007
  2. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    My take is that you believe what you want to believe. Calvin did not have the authority to have Servitus executed. He didn't even have the authority to have him excommunicated. But I'm sure you will believe the hype you see on the internet, and disbelieve that which would go against your theology.
     
    #2 reformedbeliever, Jan 16, 2007
  3. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    Is that "blind" or biased denial or can you present evidence?

    For instance, WAS Calvin in a position of authority from which he could have his openly declared wishes accomplished? It seems to me that that is the case but if you can show otherwise, that really would be helpful.

    Do you agree with the kind of society Calvin was trying to establish in Geneva? That the religion should "rule" the society? I think he was trying to pattern it after pre-king Israel, don't you?

    skypair
     
    #3 skypair, Jan 16, 2007
  4. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    Are state executions equal to murder?

    Why does Calvin, the man, even matter? He has been dead for how long?
     
    #4 Martin, Jan 16, 2007
  5. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    For sure Martin. There are those who absolutely hate a man they never knew.... and more than likely never read. Makes you wonder why a Christian would hate another Christian.

    The fact is that Calvin had no authority over the state, and the state in fact did not care for Calvin in the least.

    The state had to be subject to the council of two hundred citizens before they could execute anyone. I do not have proof at the moment, but I read somewhere that Calvin pleaded for Servitus to be put to death quickly, rather than to suffer being burned..... but then again....... what does it matter?
     
    #5 reformedbeliever, Jan 16, 2007
  6. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    What teachings? You mean the bible? I look to God and His word, not men and someone elses history, or opinions.
    How did Calvin murder someone? Did he himself burn this guy at the stake? Or did he simply believe in the death penalty(whatever they called it then)?
    Hatred is ugly in christians.
     
    #6 donnA, Jan 16, 2007
  7. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611 New Member

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    It matters because Calvinism without Calvin would be ism. It matters as whatever words you read you are allowing the words of the author to effect you somehow. If you are reading a book that is inspired by God then you are allowing God to transform your life and your worldview. If you are reading a book authored by a man, you are allowing that man's words to impact your life, such is the case with the Institutes. The question then becomes, if you have read the Institutes have you read the works, or are you following the philosophy of, a Godly man or are you reading the works of an unrepetentant murderer?

    As to the issue of state authority, regardless of whether or not Calvin threw the switch, do you deny the words attributed to him in the OP? Did he have murder in his heart and does this make him a murderer or is he only a murderer if he had the authority over the execution or if he commited it himself?
     
    #7 Rufus_1611, Jan 16, 2007
  8. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever New Member

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    Did you read my responses to the op?
     
    #8 reformedbeliever, Jan 16, 2007
  9. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611 New Member

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    Yes.

    .....
     
    #9 Rufus_1611, Jan 16, 2007
  10. JerryL

    JerryL New Member

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    Like someone stated above, what does it matter what he did? He has to answer for himself. If I believe the way he did when studying my Bible and come up with a kind of like mind thinking, why would it matter to me what he has or has not done? Same with Arminius if you believe in line with his thinking, matters not what he did in life.
     
    #10 JerryL, Jan 16, 2007
  11. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    This topic only obliquely deals with theology and is thus out of place.

    Its only intent is to inflame, so the thread is closed.

    rsr
     
    #11 rsr, Jan 16, 2007
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