Featured Lordship Salvation and children

the saling message of the Apostles was that you must beieve that jesus came to earth as God incarnated, died to atone for your sins, died in place of yourself, and that you beieve that God raised him from the dead for your salvation!

ALl the rest is important, but what we learn about after the lord saves us by his grace and mercy!

 

28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Mt 11

I don't know about 'Lordship Salvation'; is this what the theology makes the gospel to be? Complicated, difficult, hard?

I agree, the Bible is a multiple faceted gem that could be studied for fifty lifetimes and still would one hardly scratch the surface of it. But that's exactly what God wants us to do, let the word of Christ dwell in us richly.

But the religion of Jesus Christ is as simple as it gets.

 

"My sheep hear my voice and I know them. I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish."
I became one of his sheep. I was given eternal life at that point in time. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name sake.
That is after I have already become a sheep. Sanctification is a process that can only start after the sheep is born. There is that one important necessity of birth that comes first. We call it the new birth. It takes place at the same time as salvation--simultaneously. It is an event not a process. Sanctification is the process which follows regeneration.

To persevere is to work for your salvation. My salvation is kept in the palm of Jesus. I do not persevere; my salvation is rather "preserved."

Not positionally it isn't. I was justified by faith and faith alone. That is when I was saved, and that is the subject of this thread. Why are you trying to confuse with another subject unless you truly believe that salvation is by works. Sanctification comes after salvation.
"Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
There is the subject of this thread.
How is Christ Lord at the moment of salvation?

He is the author and finisher of my faith. I put my faith in Him at the moment of my salvation. That is when I believed in him for the forgiveness of my sins and was granted eternal life. He keeps me; he keeps my salvation "until he comes again." That is eternal security not perseverance. I am not the one persevering here. Christ is the one keeping my salvation.

I have no struggle. My salvation is in Christ. I have no doubts. He that has Christ has life; he that has not has not life. I have Christ. That is OSAS. It is belief in the simple gospel of Christ.

I do his will. That is the result of being justified by faith, something I did long ago when I put my trust in Christ. Not that I could justify myself, but that God justified me when I put my faith in him. It was a one time event. There is no process here.

 

AAmen!.........................

 

DHK

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You did all this??? You do not give glory to God.

In my understanding and life:
God draws, God quickens, God grants repentance unto life,God gives a new heart,God saves me

No one said anything different???

If someone does not perservere they are not God's child....

You keep saying...I ,I I did this< I put My faith, I became a sheep....
A person , does not-"BECOME A SHEEP- God already has His sheep that belong to Jesus.
So you saved yourself??? Then you give it to Jesus to hold onto it???

This is an unbiblical falsehood;You say many things, but they do not match this-
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth

Peter did not equate them with a works gospel or sanctification...he taught that these "things" accompany salvation.

Sanctification started before the world was.Believers were saved and perfected forever at the cross......The gospel applied by the Spirit giving a new heart at regeneration makes manifest who the Sheep are.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jesus is Lord of ALL...right now.Acts 2 declares it so, no matter what you say....

4 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

He is LORD...you do not "make" Jesus Lord...He is Lord.



He is the author and finisher of my faith. I put my faith in Him at the moment of my salvation. That is when I believed in him for the forgiveness of my sins and was granted eternal life. He keeps me; he keeps my salvation "until he comes again."

Believers are kept by the Power of God.All such believers have fruit in the life, good works ......not in order to be saved, but because they are saved.

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That is good DHK.

OSAS is a false teaching to accompany easy believism, and denies sanctification and holiness in the life as essential, that is why it is error.

Again, you cannot fragment the process...it is linked.

 

Icon, could you please distinguish between OSAS and perseverance in your thought? If you have already, and I missed it, I apologize for asking my question.

 

I do; do you?

You believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

Romans 10:9 That if you shalt confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him from the dead, you shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart you believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth yourconfession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
--There is a lot of YOU (SELF) in those verses, in order that YOU must be saved? What of it, Icon?

God draws and God quickens.
But God is not going to do the repenting for you Icon. You have to do that by yourself.
Except YOU repent you shall likewise perish.

The Bible doesn't say that.
The Bible says if one does not have the Spirit of God, they are none of His.

I was born a sheep, when I was born again. I was born again when I trusted Christ as my Savior. I can tell you when that happened. Can you tell me when that happened to you? The only thing I did was put my faith in Christ. Faith is not a work. Salvation is not of works. But if you must persevere, then your salvation is by works.
[qutoe]So you saved yourself??? Then you give it to Jesus to hold onto it???[/quote]
Salvation is of God. I did nothing to merit it.
But if you must persevere in a process then you have a religion with no salvation at all. I was justified by faith. I can tell you when that event happened.

Again, you are describing all the things you must do to keep your salvation. It is no different than the Catholics. It is a works based salvation.

So what. God knows all things from the beginning to the end. That has nothing to do with price of tea in China.

I never said he wasn't. But some do.

I don't disagree.

That is exactly what I said.

I never said any different.

"My sheep hear my voice and I know them. I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish."
That is OSAS, also called eternal security.

Salvation comes first. Sanctification comes after salvation. There must be a separation, otherwise there would be no such thing as a "Christian walk," would there? First you have to be a Christian!

 

The teaching of OSAS is trying to water down the biblical teaching of the absolute necessity of holiness in the life;see here;

http://www.fwponline.cc/v16n2/v16n2corner.html

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/antinomianism.htm

Some OSAS teaqchers have proclaimed that once you profess faith ,you can never be lost, no matter what you do ,or how you live...RB thieme has said that in print.

here on biblical perserverance

http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc17.html

This is this biblical teaching that shows that although we are saved all of grace....it is a grace that works!

 

DHK

DHK......all believers repent, all believers ....believe and trust,all confess Christ.

I only did these things when God drew me unto Himself and enabled me to do it.Without Divine power working in and through the gospel, God granting me repentance unto life, giving me a new heart...i would never have even looked at a bible, much less believed.

The same is true for you DHK, only you do not seem to want to acknowledge it yet.:wavey:

Correct DHK, except it is God who grants repentance unto life as I just mentioned to you.


Next I said:If someone does not perservere they are not God's child....
you said;

Lets take a look...I agree completely with Romans 8:9

Now does the bible indicate that if someone does not perservere in the faith and holiness that they are not a child of God ,but instead a lost reprobate, an apostate, a goat????

Let me offer a few scriptures for your examination DHK....I will highlight the portions that bear directly on this

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:



20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.




5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.


24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

This post was big, so i will break it in sections, but must drive more soon.

 

Good points. OSAS is antinomian at heart (although antinomianism has different degrees).

 

DHK

Many people say that and yet Jesus said:
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

We all have a rough idea of when God was drawing us, but an exact time is a stretch.....

Yes i can tell you about being alone in my house so convicted of my sin that I thought God was going to take my very breath away,and I asked Him to have mercy on me. or going to churches trying to find one that believed the bible, or my asking the pastor about baptism.

I did not have a stop watch and was not aware of the ordo salutis at that time.

You say it the way you do, because You think what you did saves you, even though God brought you to that place....I get what you mean DHK:thumbs:

I just said the way it happened.

As far as you know that is what happened, biblically something else happened.

The way you describe it , it is....You did something, you keep saying how You put your faith....I have never seen you say what Jesus did, by the Spirit,and yet we both know this is the way it really happens.

.
Correct,and agreed.

DHK- If I were Benjamin, Webdog, or Skan,[hope he is doing ok?]
At this point I would pause here to announce...
strawman, or red herring.....Benjamin would be so proud of me.

DHK....I do not believe salvation or sanctification is by, or because of works.You cannot produce ONE reputable Calvinist who writes, teaches, or preaches this. Not one. Yet all believe what the bible says about working out our salvation with fear and trembling, seeking holiness diligently.

A salvation by grace works in every phase of our daily life,as God works in us.

Salvation is of God. I did nothing to merit it.[/QUOTE]

Okay ...we agree here also,nice-

.

62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

You know the approximate time perhaps.

I never have said that at all.That is the part you misunderstand.

We work and continue to work all through our christian lives...because we are saved:thumbs:This should not be such a struggle for you.

I have no problem explaining about the different parts of sanctification.

 

Yes Herald this is at the root of much of the struggle with sanctification and those who say that Jesus is not Lord of every area of the life and universe.

Many jump at the idea of OSAS because they have not studied it out biblically, and it sounds good as a half truth that it is.

others with libertine tendencies what to "push" the envelop and play fast and loose with their profession as if they were not brought with a price.
9 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

That would liek saying that lordship salvation people ONLY hold sinless perfection can save you though!

truth is that eternal security is taught thru the NT scriptures, from words of jesus and Apsotles, and that it isgiven in order to give us "peace of Mind' that salvation is indeed finished by the Cross of chrsit, and frees us up tryingto keep[ burden of the laqw, and to walk as new mewn in the holy spirit!

And that would be a baptist who holds to DoG, who also knows that jesus secured me forever, for that was/is part of his work as my high priest, and the HS sealed within me until that Day!

 

if that was the truth, paul taught it!

Actually, He got SAMEr response tto the grace of the gospel as you referenced here, to good to fully believe!

 

DHK

Dhk I can agree with what you said up to here...for the most part....

but then you go off here:

No.....he says they are behaving as carnal....as the unsaved would in this one sin. He does not say....they are "carnal" christians, which is an oxymoron.

If you would have listened to the sermons I offered explaining the greek words and tenses you would know this,

but....you just did:wavey:

correct...

no...many understand it properly,and if you want to, I would listen to those sermons and see for yourself