Losing Salvation Pt. 2

John 10 is agreeing with John 15 which is agreeing with Hebrews 10:26. All scripture must agree.
IF we remain in God's grace( John 15) we cannot be snatched out of His hand.
As Hebrews 10:26-31 says if we sin deliberately after knowing the truth, Christ's sacrifice is of no avail because we have "profaned the blood of the covenant" by which believers are "sanctified."
Then verse 30-31 says "The Lord will judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

 

If salvation is easy why does Jesus say: "Enter by the narrow gate for the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction and those that enter it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life and those who find it are few." Matthew 7:13-14

 

If salvation is easy why does Jesus say: "Enter by the narrow gate for the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction and those that enter it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life and those who find it are few." Matthew 7:13-14

My Bible, the KJV, reads as follows;

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I don't see "Hard".

 

Disagree.

You have a word (believe). By itself, it doesn't mean belief unto salvation. In the passage, it's modified by two different phrases: "and were saved" and "and fell away."

The same word "believe" (pisteuo) is used in James 2:19; but it's obviously not in reference to a saving faith.

Note Luke 8:48 (same chapter, by the way), where the word "faith" is used; in comparison to the word "belief," this word is "pistis" (of which, one of the definitions is: the religious beliefs of Christians).

There is a difference between belief, and belief unto salvation. The parable of the sower isn't using the word that means conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah.

So sorry, I disagree with you. The word "believe" in the parable of the sower does not indicate those with a saving faith.

 

Point taken but we don't see the word "easy" either. What we do see is that few will find eternal life. If all one has to do is accept Christ as their personal savior then many not few would be saved.

In Luke 13:23 Jesus is asked "Are there few who are saved?" Jesus replied "Strive to enter by the narrow gate for I say to you, many shall seek to enter and shall not be able."

We know for certain that the gate is narrow and few will be saved.

 

I disagree. In the passage the two uses of pisteou have the same meaning.

We're not talking about James.We need to stay in the context of how the word is used in Luke. Jesus tells us in Luke the precise meaning of "believe" and it is a saving faith that the devil removes in one group but in the other they have saving faith "for awhile" and then fall away.

The woman had faith and was healed of her illness. She wasn't saved. Pistis is a form of pisteou but I don't see your point.

Yes it is. John 3:16 "For God so love that world...that whoever believes (pisteuo) in him should not perish but have eternal life.

That's the same Greek word in the parable. They believed( pisteuo) for awhile and fell away.

Scripture disagrees with you.

 

Jesus also reveals that the devil comes in and takes away the word before they believe... "lest they believe, and be saved."

 

I do not believe a person can lose their salvation, I thought I made that clear. The only other alternative is that an unregenerate person can be enlightened, a partaker of the Holy Ghost, and brought to the point of repentance and fall away in unbelief.

This is how Matthew Henry saw this passage.

So, you see here Henry agrees with my view. The problem is, this refutes Total Depravity as Calvinism understands it. This shows the unregenerate can understand a great deal of scripture and the gospel, can be brought under conviction and to the point of repentance, and yet fall away in unbelief. I agree with Henry.

 

I am completely aware that the book of Hebrews was addressed to the Hebrews. And I did not say a person can lose their salvation, I believe in the Preservation of the Saints, not Perserverance.

But again, this shows the unregenerate man can understand a great deal about salvation and the gospel, the fact they are sinners, that Jesus died for their sins and the need to trust him for salvation, and yet fall away in unbelief. They are not like a dead corpse whatsoever.

 

Yes they had it, but it never took root. Thye were never saved. if thye had been they would have remained.
1John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

Sorry if I miss-understood you. Yes you are correct a person can understand much, in fact believe it all and still remain lost. I know of a pastor who preached for 10 years and lead many to Christ and then got saved under his own ministry. All that time he thought he was saved and it was not until he started hearing what he was saying did he get saved.

 

Jesus said they believed for awhile and fell away. I believe Jesus

You're mixing two different contexts. 1 John2:19 has nothing to do with salvation. John is talking about anti-Christs. That is the context. They denied the Father and the Son. ( Verse 22)
Luke 8 is talking about believers not anti-Christs.

 

FAL, you said,

Point taken but we don't see the word "easy" either. What we do see is that few will find eternal life. If all one has to do is accept Christ as their personal savior then many not few would be saved.

In Luke 13:23 Jesus is asked "Are there few who are saved?" Jesus replied "Strive to enter by the narrow gate for I say to you, many shall seek to enter and shall not be able."

We know for certain that the gate is narrow and few will be saved.

Matthew 16:23 comes to ming.

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men

One of the thieves on the cross admitted that Jesus was the Savior; that he himself was a sinner and worthy of death; and then asked the Lord to remember him.

Do you recall what Jesus's response was? Check out Luke 23:43. It don't get any easier than this and I've been told by some they don't believe in Death Bed Confessions.

You know FAL, I checked out your website and based upon some of your positions posted on here, I don't think you're really "Free" at "Last". You appear to still be carrying around a lot of baggage (anger/frustration) from yesteryear.

Salvation is as free and easy as being hung on a cross and under a death penalty. Religions make salvation hard. Religion is man's way of trying to reach up to God. God has reached down to us through Jesus. Religion says to do, do, do, work, work, work. Jesus says, "Come to me....," It's really that easy.

Now, I do apologize if I've been callus with you here but rolling over and playing dead is not my best suit.

 

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


Seems pretty clear to me. People who "believe" and then at some point don't believe were never saved to begin with.

 

Exactly right Amy...unless someone is trying to resist the truth.:applause:

 

So they believed. That does not save a person. The devil believes. if they were saved they would have remained. 1John 2:19 By the way everyone who does not believe is an anti-christ.

 

Yes; both uses mean "believe." Plain and simple.

Don't be disingenuous. 1) The word pisteou is used in both places. You're trying to have it mean one thing in one passage, and another thing in another passage. 2) You later use John 3:16 to substantiate your position; but you don't allow me to use James. Double standard?

Simple point: You're focusing on a word. The word previously used (pistis) is translated as faith, or that belief that results in a conviction. The word pisteou, on the other hand, is used throughout the bible to indicate a belief, sometimes having nothing to do with salvation.

It's also the same word used in Matthew, Mark, John, Acts, Romans, and yes, even James. Are you trying to say that this word is referencing a saving faith every time it's used?

Nah. You and I just disagree on what it says.

 

You are assuming that they were never saved to begin with. They were saved but then rejected God's grace and fell into sin. To say they were never saved to begin with is a cop-out.

Paul tells the Corinthians that they were "sanctified and justified " in 1 Cor. 6:11 yet in chapter 10:6-12 he tells these same Corinthians "these things are warnings to us...we must not indulge in immorality..therefore let anyone who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall."

 

Agree

Jesus tells us in Luke what it means.

Context is everything. Do you deny that in John 3:16 it means a saving faith? In James it can't mean a saving faith because the demons are not saved they simply believe.

Again, in Luke 8 Jesus, our Lord and Savior, tells us what it means "lest they should believe and be saved." Jesus is telling us that "believe" in this context is a saving faith.

Context defines how the word is to be understood and Jesus gives us the context in Luke 8