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Featured Love of money

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Judith, Oct 31, 2016.

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  1. Judith

    Judith Well-Known Member
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    I believe that the church in America has fallen to the sin of the love of money. I do not mean some of the church or even most of the church, but every single church and church leader.

    Let me explain. All Churches in this country now willingly and knowingly forfeit their rights of freedom of speech to get tax exemption status.

    To retain tax exemption the church surrenders its constitutional right to promote candidates from the pulpit. That is unconstitutional, but done because of the love of money.

    I believe that the church needs to take back the freedom of speech regardless the consequences. Churches should have a list of candidates posted in every church at every election who its members should support from a biblical standpoint and even give money to their campaign if the church can afford it.

    There will be times when we have to leave some blank because there is no godly person to vote for as we should never put anyone into office who is not a Christian in both name and practice.

    Our choices should not be from a political standpoint, but from a biblical standpoint. Pastors should also be teaching the people why they should vote and what should be the parameters of who they should vote for.

    Again the church has fallen to the love of money and it is time to repent and exercise the freedom we have been given in the constitution regardless the consequences.

    I challenge every true believer to confront their leadership with this and keep on pushing for the church to repent and exercise their constitutional right to speak for certain candidates as well as support them with funds.
     
    #1 Judith, Oct 31, 2016
  2. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Maybe churches don't endorse candidates or have candidates in the pulpit because they don't want to do it, for reasons other than the money. You know, traditional Baptist reasons like separation of church and state. I think you are using a very broad brush with your accusations that ALL churches are in it for the money.

    Pastors should NOT be telling their congregations who they should vote for. They may give Biblical reasons for personal beliefs and ethics and leave it up to the individual to apply it to their voting actions. A good example would be the pro-life position.
     
    #2 InTheLight, Oct 31, 2016
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  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Our church is not an 501(c)(3) church. I know many among our churches who are not.
     
    #3 The Biblicist, Oct 31, 2016
  4. Judith

    Judith Well-Known Member
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    So what does that have to do with what I said?
     
    #4 Judith, Oct 31, 2016
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    That is the form filled out to obtain tax exemption status.
     
    #5 The Biblicist, Oct 31, 2016
  6. Judith

    Judith Well-Known Member
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    I still do not understand what this has to do with what I said. Under the law you do not have to be a 501c to receive tax exemption. http://hushmoney.org/501c3-facts.htm
     
    #6 Judith, Oct 31, 2016
  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    For a church to be regarded as a non-profit organization by the IRS you do have to file this form. Our church does not claim tax exemption as WE DO NOT PAY TAXES as a church to the IRS and therefore have nothing to claim.
     
    #7 The Biblicist, Oct 31, 2016
  8. Judith

    Judith Well-Known Member
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    No you do not have to file that form. I gave the law. I still do not see what you are talking about. What does that have to do with what I wrote?
     
    #8 Judith, Oct 31, 2016
  9. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    You did not give the law, you gave your opinion of the law. The law requires the 501(c)(3) form to be a LEGAL non-profit organization for tax exemption in the eyes of the IRS. Why do you think the 501 exists if a church can be regarded as a non-profit tax exempt organization??

    However, the point remains you said every single church, every one, is guilty and that is simply not true.
     
    #9 The Biblicist, Oct 31, 2016
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Sorry, but that is incorrect. A church is automatically considered non-taxable under 501(c)(3) and needs do nothing to avoid paying federal taxes. This is outlined in Title 26 U.S. Code § 508:

    (a) New organizations must notify Secretary that they are applying for recognition of section 501(c)(3) status Except as provided in subsection (c), an organization organized after October 9, 1969, shall not be treated as an organization described in section 501(c)(3)—

    (c) Exceptions
    (1) Mandatory exceptions Subsections (a) and (b) shall not apply to—
    (A) churches, their integrated auxiliaries, and conventions or associations of churches, or

    If you do not pay federal tax it is because you are exempt under Title 26 U.S. Code § 501(c)(3). If you reject 501(c)(3) status you will be tacitly admitting you are a taxable organization and be in danger of suffering the consequences similar to Indianapolis Baptist Temple back in 1983.

    "In 1983 Dr. Dixon led his congregation to reject their not-for-profit corporate status and tax deductible gifts and as Dr. Dixon stated, “began operating under God rather than government.” A terrible price was paid by the congregation for that decision when the church facilities and 22 acres of land were sold, after a 93 day siege and raid by 100 federal marshals on February 13, 2001, to the Christel House Foundation of Indianapolis. They bulldozed the church facilities and established a Charter School in the same school buildings that saw as many as 700 enrolled in the Temple’s 31 year old church school."
     
    #10 TCassidy, Oct 31, 2016
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  11. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I think what The Biblicist is saying is that all churches have tax exempt status, regardless of filling out a tax exempt form. If a candidate were to speak in his church, the IRS could not pull their tax exempt status because it did not fill out a 501(c) form. I await his clarification, though.
     
    #11 InTheLight, Oct 31, 2016
  12. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Ok, I stand corrected and Judith you have my sincere apologies. I was misinformed. Thanks for the correction. However, our congregation does not fit this condemnation by Judith.
     
    #12 The Biblicist, Oct 31, 2016
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  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Do I detect the smell of self-righteousness?
     
    #13 TCassidy, Oct 31, 2016
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    501(c)(3) is the section of the US Code. The form is "Form 1023." But it is not required for churches. All churches are automatically exempt from federal taxation. :)
     
    #14 TCassidy, Oct 31, 2016
  15. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I know back in 2012 Rick Santorum spoke at our church. I know the IRS did nothing. So I suspect that having a candidate speak at a church does not endanger the tax exempt status of the church. I think it is often held out as a boogieman for persecution. But I await TCassidy's input.
     
    #15 InTheLight, Oct 31, 2016
  16. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Thank you.
     
    #16 InTheLight, Oct 31, 2016
  17. Judith

    Judith Well-Known Member
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    Yes the law was in the link. You may not have read it but it is there. A church does not have to file to be tax exempt. So again what are you talking about in regards to the OP?
     
    #17 Judith, Oct 31, 2016
  18. Judith

    Judith Well-Known Member
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    Liberals usually do.
     
    #18 Judith, Oct 31, 2016
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So you are admitting you are a liberal?
     
    #19 TCassidy, Oct 31, 2016
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Several years ago our church had Duncan Hunter, Sr. preach on Sunday morning including his political positions and why he held them. Even though that probably does constitute "lobbying" what must be understood is that the limit is "substantial" investment of time or money in lobbying. The rule of thumb is 5% of a church's time or money is the limit.

    As, at that time, we had a morning service, evening service, sunday school, BYF prior to the evening service, Wednesday bible study and Friday or Saturday youth nights, one 30 minute message by a politician does not come to 1/2 of 1% of the yearly total of preaching time so is irrelevant in so far as the limit is concerned. :)
     
    #20 TCassidy, Oct 31, 2016
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