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MacArthur on the Purpose Driven Life

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Revmitchell, May 14, 2009.

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  1. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4 Member

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    I agree that the Gospel was incomplete in this book and in many cases I have found the true Gospel today has been changed through many years of passing down tradition and needs a clear explanation to reach the true Biblical Gospel of the first century. Also, Jesus as Lord and Savior is the only way just as workless faith and repentance are necessary in the beginning of salvation. I say workless because when the Lord's Spirit is at work faith and repentance look just like Revelation 22:17 explains- Coming freely/willingly/with a new desire.
     
    #61 zrs6v4, May 18, 2009
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  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Can you define what was incomplete about the Gospel in the book?
    Let me ask you this. Does the Gospel message consist of an unregenerated person making an upfront commitment to stop sinning in exchange for salvation?
     
  3. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4 Member

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    Macarthur covered it pretty well I thought. sin judgement, condemnation, wrath, propitiation, etc... Warren seems to try to place the sinner in front of God as if he/she is already a believer and not in eternal trouble. He also makes to many assumptions just as Macarthur noted.

    I am not sure I understand your question rightly, but no I dont think we must do any works in order to gain God's favor hence-grace. Repentance is not just stopping our sin problem, rather a desire to not only turn from sin, but also to rest on Jesus for mercy. As I said, when God's Spirit is at work the sinner will take rest in Christ when under conviction. The way you stated your question may make a self-righteous false convert IMO. As I tried to explain in my post above, true faith and repentance are necessary for salvation, but they are to be done in the right heart or either one may become a work. Again the difference is the Holy Spirit working through the faithful preaching of God's word. When the word is not faithfully preached then the Spirit does not work through it. I am confident His message does not sound biblical, but rather very soft and comforting
     
    #63 zrs6v4, May 19, 2009
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  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    zrs...would this be a statement you would agree with?

    "However, to receive God's forgiveness, eternal salvation and blessings, you are required to believe the gospel and confess your sins in sorrow and regret. Do not just confess them generally. Be specific in confessing what you have done to offend His holiness.
    Show Him that you are sincerely sorry for your sins by MAKING A COMMITMENT NEVER TO PRACTICE THOSE SINS AGAIN! This is real repentance."
     
  5. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4 Member

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    I dont think so, the wording is strange. Confession/repentance is a result that comes from the gospel that should cut hearts when God is working within. It isnt like we have to persuade God or play sincere. Our honest cry to God after being convicted through the Gospel will be a broken spirit. I dont have a problem preaching the gospel calling people to repentance, but I wouldnt tell them to be sincere or try to pretend to be broken when it should be nothing less than a natural reaction.
     
  6. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    What does a four year old need to know about those things to receive Christ and follow Him?
     
  7. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    What makes a 4 year old accountable before God any more than a 1 year old?
     
  8. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    There are Christians today who received Christ at the age of four and are living for Christ and making disciples. My daughter received Christ at the age of five. She is sharing Christ with those she meets and is no wall flower.

    A few years ago I baptized a four year old and nobody was talking him out of it. He was adamant about following Christ. I saw more boldness in that youngster than I see in most adults. There was no doubt in my mind about his decision.
     
  9. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    I accepted Christ as a six year old. However, it was at a later age that I better understood judgement, repentance, Lordship, etc. Christ met me where I was and has been growing me up ever since.
     
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Thanks for clarifying. If you don't agree with that statement, that is a statement from a Lordship Salvationist, what MacArthur is. As you can see, it is pretty pompous of him to condemn Warren's Gospel presentation when his is way more severely flawed.
     
  11. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Would you say that MacArthur forgot God's word where Paul wrote, "Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice, yes, and I will rejoice."?
     
  12. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Based on this works based statement from his book Hard to Believe, I'm afraid he probably disagrees with just about everyone who believes we are saved by grace alone through faith alone...

    "Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny"
     
  13. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Did that quote come from John McArthur?

    If so...all I can say is wow. Very saddening.

    I'm shocked at encountering such an erronious understanding of the gospel. Even though I have known that McArthur is very legalistic at times...THIS goes beyond what I have know of McArthur up till now. This statement is every bit as heretical as the Catholics and Orthodoxs false views of salvation.

    Very sad. :tear:
     
  14. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    It is strange that MacArthur would write such a thing especially considering the fact that the majority of his congregation comes from a RCC background.

    I wonder how MacArthur would interpret 1 Cor 3:15, "If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."
     
    #74 gb93433, May 21, 2009
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  15. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    MacArthur's answer to the following question from http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/70-13-2.htm


    Question (continued)
    Well, the problem I had with it was that, if an unborn child is saved until he becomes unsaved by a sinful attitude or action, then what does that do to the doctrine of eternal security? And also, the other problem I had is that...

    Answer (continued)
    Let’s take the first problem. The unborn child is not saved. He’s not saved until he...what was that you said? If he’s not saved until...?


    Question (continued)
    "In your quote, you said that “God, not having any just basis, either internally or externally, by virtue of the attitude or the action of an unborn child, would have no basis on which to sentence them to Hell, except for the depravity they inherited in Adam.”

    Answer (continued)
    Right, but that doesn’t mean they’re saved. An unborn infant--a child, a baby--before the age of accountability is not saved. Otherwise, they would lose their salvation when they reached the age of accountability. That’s your question, right? Then you don’t have eternal security, because if all infants and all babies are saved before the age of accountability, when they get to the age of accountability, they lose their salvation and they have to get saved over again.


    No, they’re not saved. God redeems them when they die. There’s a difference. They’re not saved. They’re in a situation where they are sort of in the middle ground: they’re not saved, or in the technical sense, they’re lost, of course, but not in the sense of having rejected God in unbelief or unbelief of Christ--they are not saved, which can only occur through faith in Christ. So, there they are: they’re not saved and they’re not--how can I say it? I don’t want to say they’re not unsaved…but they’re not confirmed in unbelief. They’re neither. If they live, they maintain the same situation of being unsaved. If they die, I believe God saves them.


    So, the salvation doesn’t come into play unless they die and at that point.
     
  16. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4 Member

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    I am not aware of what a Lordship Salvationist believes and I do respect Macarthur (although I have some disagreements). I had a feeling you were quoting him :laugh:. anyway as of right now here is my opinion just for the record. Yes one must make Jesus Lord aka repent at salvation. This is clear in Matt 13:44, but it is not a work to earn forgiveness, but rather a result of true faith. So yes we must repent to the Lordship of Jesus out of a new desire, and if they dont then their faith isnt genuine. This is another clear example of why the Spirit must be at work within otherwise we would not be willing to come freely to Christ, but rather trying to do a work to be saved.
     
  17. historyb

    historyb New Member

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    Here is a definition of Lordship Salvation -
    Source

    and here is what Dr. MacArthur says about it:

    Source
     
    #77 historyb, May 21, 2009
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  18. historyb

    historyb New Member

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    Question: "What is Lordship salvation?"
    Source
     
  19. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I have not ever known one person who was discipled as Jesus did His disciples who ever left the faith. However I have seen many who were never discipled who act as though they never knew Christ. One of those I met in 1975 and followed up is a missionary today. He received Christ two years earlier and when I met him I had doubts about his decision. There is no doubt today. Follow up perfected his earlier decision. He was taught to follow Christ and make disciples. However when he received Christ he was left alone to die as a baby would do if not fed and cared for.
     
  20. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    McArthur again (bolding mine)...

    My goodness. John McArthur is denying the gospel of Jesus Christ. I mean, I just dont know any other way of putting it.

    My last post had 1 crying dude. This one get 3...

    :tear::tear::tear:
     
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