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Featured Make believe Eschatology

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by 37818, Nov 24, 2021 at 11:52 PM.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Normally deferent eschatological views are regarded on an equal basis.

    The nature truth only one view can be true or all the views can be false either on the whole or in some parts.

    Preterist views are all make believe.
    Have you come to an orthodox Preterist view. The orthodoxy is what is not the make believe.
     
  2. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Full Preterism is heresy as the second advent has not occurred yet. But Partial Preterism is very much orthodox. It is the only view that makes perfect sense of the Olivet Discourse. :)
     
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  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Any eschatological view that does not align with the gospel of the kingdom preached by Jesus in the gospels is false. Most read right over it not discerning its presence. Still looking along with the Pharisees for their physical Millennial kingdom of the future.
     
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Here's an example of radical eisegesis leading to false eschatology.

    First, here’s the problem based on a Hal Lindsey Quote.

    It shows how Dispensationalists take liberties with the Bible cutting and pasting text from all over the place to harmonize their scheme with today’s headline news.

    Says Lindsey; "The prophecies can be pieced together to make a coherent picture, even though the pieces are scattered in small bits throughout the Old and New Testaments.

    Hal Lindsey," 'The Late Great Planet Earth' 1970 (Chapter 4) *Paradigms of Paranoia: The Culture of Conspiracy By Samuel Chase Coale

    Says Irenaeus about the same heretics of old; "Then, again, collecting a set of expressions and names scattered here and there [in Scripture], they twist them, as we have already said, from a natural to a non-natural sense." Irenaeus, Heresies, I.IX.4 Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies / Adversus Haereses, Book 1 (Roberts-Donaldson translation)
     
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  5. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    To the contrary, Brother, I suggest it's most of the "futurist" views that are make believe. The only part that any "futurist" interpretation has correct is the future 2nd Coming of Christ. Scriptural support for futurist views is based on misinterpretations of the Bible, and largely on presuppositions that this view MUST be correct. This, in turn, is largely because the "futurist" views have been so ingrained into the Church since the early 19th Century.

    From the time I was saved in 1978 until the about 1991, I wasn't even aware there were any other "end times" views. I didn't know what eschatology was - heck, I had never come across that word. I'd always looked for the Rapture to be around 1988 (40 years after Israel became a nation). When that "prophecy" failed, my doubts about this view began. Okay, so maybe the Rapture would happen around 2007 (40 years after the 6 Day War). When this too failed to happen, I was convinced that there must be another answer.

    I finally found that answer in the Preterist view. I had never heard of the Jewish Wars, nor of the AD 70 Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. Having realized my "end times" views were wrong, I learned to study Scripture from a different context. What was the author trying to say? How did the original audience understand his message? Eureka!!! It was as if I was reading prophecies for the first time. I had to "un-learn" the "make believe" eschatological views that have invaded our culture. If you will pardon the pun, those "futurist" views are now "Left Behind" :).
     
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  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Not REALLY. If the great trib has already occurred, then Jesus is 'WAY overdue!
     
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  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    It was set forth in Scripture-Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea
    V. 7-8 shows this kingdom will be on earth.
     
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  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Again, you cannot get past this big ole bear of a Scriptural fact: Matt. 24:9 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

    So, if the trib has already occurred, Jesus is 'WAY overdue! No two ways about it!
     
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  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Pre, mid and post trib, two or all cannot be true. One is true the others are make believe.

    With an understanding of Matthew 24:29-31 being the second appearing of Christ (Hebrews 9:28, there can only be one second appearing) and the rapture being referred to in Matthew 24:31 sets forth a post-trib view, ". . . Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The rapture won't be a return-Jesus shall call the saints to Himself, not Him coming down to the saints. But, of course, He will come down to the trib saints. That'll be His return.
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  12. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    You are looking for a literal fulfillment of symbolic language. The same type of symbolic language is used throughout the Bible. Examples include Jeremiah 4:11-29, Isaiah 13:10-13, Isaiah 34:3-5, Ezekiel 32:2-8, Joel 2:1-11, Acts 2:17-21, and many more. First Century Jews were familiar with this type of language just as we are familiar with "raining cats and dogs", "I drive a stick", etc. Since we use idioms and expressions that are not literally true, why wouldn't Jesus? You are a "one trick pony" on this kick.

    The "cosmic language" prophecy was fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem. Those who look for a future fulfillment of prophecies where Jesus used symbolic language, and then point your finger at Preterists when we provide the Biblical answer. Remember the old adage about pointing your finger - three more are pointing back at you.
     
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  13. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    Granted, there can be only one "2nd appearing of Christ". How do we reconcile the Preterist view Matthew 24:29-31 with the made up "future fulfillment" view? As I mentioned in the "Each Eschatological View" thread, verse 30 says "the sign of the Son of Man will appear". Jesus did not say that He Himself would appear at that time, but His sign would appear. This sign was the destruction of Jerusalem. Note that "see" is also commonly used to mean perceive, realize", or understand. Back in Matthew 24:15, Jesus admonishes us to study Daniel's prophecy, and in verse 30, Jesus again quotes from Daniel's prophecy. In Daniel 7:13, note that the Son of Man is going up to the Ancient of Days, not down to Earth to set up His kingdom.

    Finally, what is this "gathering together of the elect"? Ken Gentry (author of "Before Jerusalem Fell") says it is the “poetic imagery: the destruction of the temple trumpets in the ultimate Jubilee Year.” Gentry connects it with the demise of the temple and the Jewish-focused, typologically based blessings which God opens to the world in the forgiveness of man’s ultimate debt before God. In full disclosure, I am not positive about Gentry's interpretation. However, I am positive that all the prophecies of the Olivet Discourse came to pass between AD 66-70.
     
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  14. Two Wings

    Two Wings Active Member
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    Hmm .... I have sought the Holy Spirit’s guidance on this and I simply do not agree. 1947 is part of the prophesy regarding the regathering of Israel. I mean that was literally a world-wide event we’re going to disregard and instead claim the 70AD destruction of Jerusalem was it?

    Again, I ask, what has been happening the last 1900 years, then?

    Does God have a timeline? Does He want us to learn it?

    Did God place the stars in their position? Does He want us to use them to mark sign & (or) season?

    I can agree that discerning the symbolic from the literal is the key, but I think this is where the Proverbs 25 “glory to God in concealing a matter ... glory of kings to seek it” is. Relevant.
     
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  15. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    The sensationalism of dispensationalism!

    Phony as a Ford Corvette but very addictive to the carnal mind.
     
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  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Really? Then Jesus' second appearing as proclaimed is in the past too. What we have then is full perterism.
     
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  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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  18. Two Wings

    Two Wings Active Member
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    How does a Baptist believe Dan 9:25 is history as of 70AD?
     
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I'm looking for a literal fulfillment because it IS literal. Jesus did NOT switch back-n-forth between literal & symbolic in the Olivet Discourse. He answered the disciples' questions literally, as they were asking about literal events he'd just prophesied. Has there been literal war, pestilences, earthquakes. etc. or not?
     
  20. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Can you show us from any legitimate works of history that the prophesied eschatological events have all occurred?
     
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