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Making Excuses for Rape and Murder

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by carpro, Aug 8, 2006.

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  1. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member

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    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-08-08-11-17-26


    Soldier Tells of Combat Stress in Unit

    By RYAN LENZ
    Associated Press Writer


    US Soldiers Face Hearing for Rape of Iraqi Girl

    EXCERPT

    BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Frequent deadly attacks by insurgents sapped morale and raised combat stress in a U.S. Army unit that included soldiers accused of raping and murdering a 14-year-old Iraqi girl, a private testified at a military hearing Tuesday.

    Pfc. Justin Cross recounted the "mentally draining" living conditions of the unit in the third day of the hearing to determine if five U.S. soldiers will be court-martialed in the March 12 assault near Mahmoudiya. The girl's parents and sister were also slain.

    "It drives you nuts. You feel like every step you might get blown up. You just hit a point where you're like, 'If I die today, I die.' You're just walking a death walk," Cross told the hearing.

    He said soldiers often drank Iraqi whiskey and took painkillers to relieve the stress of not knowing whether the day would be their last. One such drinking session preceded the rape and murders, the hearing was told by another witness on Monday.

    Spc. James P. Barker, Sgt. Paul E. Cortez, Pfc. Jesse V. Spielman and Pfc. Bryan L. Howard are accused of rape and murder. If convicted by a court-martial, they could face the death penalty.
     
  2. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

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    And as well they should be [facing the death penalty]. I'm sorry, war or not, there is NO excuse that will EVER condone the rape and murder of an innocent YOUNG GIRL. You do the crime you face the time. The pathetic excuses of stress during combat will not invoke sympathy for a rapist/murderer in my book. There are many soldiers who face the same stresses every day and they do not rape and murder innocent young girls.
     
  3. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    If they are found guilty of this crime they should face the full wrath of the United States justice system. There is no excuse for raping a child and willfully killing innocent civilians, none what-so-ever. If these guys could not handle the stresses of war they should have gotten help and left.
     
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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    I agree!:thumbs:
     
  5. faithgirl46

    faithgirl46 Active Member

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    I was thinking what a bunch of huey when I heard those boys excuses. Yes war is stressful, but that does not excuse that rape of an innocent girl and the murder of innocent people.
    Faithgirl
     
  6. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member

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    Talk is easy....

    What I am going to say does not in any way suggest that these men should not be made to face responsibility for their actions. There has to be an appropriate punishment for them.

    However, there are mitigating circumstances that should be considered here.

    First, and foremost, they are our soldiers. They could very well have been in any American town, working to earn a living in a decent and orderly manner, not worrying about incoming explosives, or at getting shot at and killed at the next corner, or of whether that plastic bag or strange looking object at the side of the road will blow their legs, arms, or heads away.

    They could very well have been sleeping in good old American homes, with air-conditioning, instead of the 110 degree and above heat of the iraqi deserts and towns they are at. Their heads could very well be propped up in soft pillows, instead of the makeshift pillows they use in operations, or the hard GI issue ones if they happen to have any.

    But, no, they are there, and there is truth to what they say that they do not know if they will be alive the next minute or not. Some people take that kind of stress well, some don't. They happen to be among those who don't.

    They are there trying to give those idiots some semblance of democracy and freedom, and for that they get shot at, blown up, and verbally abused.

    I have been in combat, in my own country, and I can guarantee you, the situation was not as intense as that which these men have been through, but, I know the feeling when the captain sends out a platoon on patrol because intelligence suggests activity in a certain given area. Heck, I've seen soldiers willingly abuse the civilian population so they can get transferred out.

    These men have left girlfriends, wives, and loved ones, and have seen death up close, and have heard screams and watched their comrades writhing in pain from those IED's.

    Let's punish them for the crime, yes, but, consider the mitigating circumstances, too.
     
    #6 pinoybaptist, Aug 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2006
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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    The purpose of Boot Camp or Basic training in our military is to weed out those who have no fortitude. So the soldier under stress argument is a non starter. They train in the heat, they train under pressure, and our fighting military personal of the United States of America have to be of a stronger character than that. In our training of our troops this is emphisized and indoctrinated.
    I am less likely to believe accusers of our military personel, especially when it comes to areas where terrorists are the enemy. Largely because this is one of the main tactics against our service men. But when they are actually guilty then no mitigating circumstances are reasonable. Period

    It is not an impossible task to require our soldiers to not rape little girls. Even under the most stressful of circumstances. This isnt a stress problem, it is a character problem.
     
  8. The Galatian

    The Galatian New Member

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    This is true. We need to severely punish any of our troops who has raped and murdered children, precisely because they are our troops.

    Otherwise, we are no different than the rest. Let a court-martial convene, if the evidence is sufficient, and let the chips fall where they may.

    There is no excuse for an American to act like that.
     
  9. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member

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    There are no mitigating circumstances for rape of a young girl.
     
  10. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    Agreed. No excuses whatsoever!
     
  11. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Good post, pinoybaptist.
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    We would have been better off if they had stayed home. If they are guilty, they should be executed. I don't care about mitigating circumstances. There are thousands of American Soldiers who proved themselves worthy of the pride and honor of the American uniform, even through the mitigating circumstances.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  13. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    Combat stress is not a mitigating circumstance. There is no mitigating circumstance for rape.
     
  14. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    They do not deserve to be tried and found guilty on the BB. Truly.
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    With this, I can agree. This is why I await the military trial and state that IF they are found to be guilty, they should be executed. There is no mitigating circumstance for rape and murder.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

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    Why? Because they are soldiers? As others have pointed out, there are ABSOLUTELY NO MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES for the rape/murder of a young girl. As far as I can tell they have no other defense than that of, "I did it because being in combat is too stressful". That is pure baloney. Joseph was right they do not deserve to wear the uniform.

     
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    I did not say that. I said, if they are found guilty...

    I agree with LE that they don't deserve to be tried here on the BB, partially because they are soldiers...but also because I don't think anyone should be. Let the military conduct the investigation and hold their trial. Let's wait for all the facts.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  18. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member

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    True.

    "On Monday, Army criminal investigator Benjamin Bierce testified about a sworn statement by Barker in which he said the soldiers drank whiskey and played cards while plotting the assault. Bierce said Barker confessed that he, Cortez and Green took turns raping Abeer Qassim al-Janabi and that Green shot the teen as well as her relatives."
     
  19. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    They confessed to it? That's enough for me. Give them the firing squad.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  20. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member

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    Not all of them have confessed but this is what all the excuse making is really about:

    EXCERPT from source article

    Premeditated murder carries the death penalty under U.S. military law and the testimony could be an attempt to persuade the command to seek a lesser penalty if a court martial is ordered.

    In Washington, lawyer Eugene Fidell, president of the National Institute of Military Justice, said combat stress as a defense was a long shot "unless it rose to the level of an insanity defense or negated some element of the crime."

    "It might influence whether it's sent to trial as a capital case," he told The Associated Press. "That may be what the defense considers the main event here... They may be hoping to have the nature of the charges modified, have the case go to trial as something other than premeditated murder."
     
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