Male submission to women

Is it? I think we are adding ideas to a word that do not belong to its definition. According to NT usage, submission is arranging oneself under another's authority. That may require humility but I do not believe it right to say that Christ "submitted" to us in His death on the cross.

Andy </font>[/QUOTE]All I know is what it says in Phil. 2:8, "Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

Then add that to what Jesus did in verses 3-7. Couple that with what it says in Eph. 5:21-33. If Christ is above all (which he truly is) then where does that put the rest of us? Look at the example of Jesus' love, submission, humility and leadership. We must look at the totality of Jesus not just a partial Jesus. The person of Jesus is inescapable.

 

Right but where does the Bible teach that Jesus submitted to us? Submitted to the Father? Yes. Submitted to us? where?

I think this is an important distinction to make because (1) we need to use Biblical language precisely, and (2) the idea that men are to submit to their wives has caused confusion regarding the role for husband and wives that God teaches in His Word.

Andy

 

Aside from his death on the cross? Jesus washes the feet of his friends (who are no longer follwers). This is an act of submission in regards to him now serving, rather than being served.

 

How is that placing Himself under our authority? You may be thinking of the English word rather than the Greek word.

Andy

 

When one serves, there's an implication that the one being served has authority over the one serving. In Jesus' case, it was completely voluntary. This is the example we Christians need to follow. The concept is a bit more difficult for us to put into words, since the Greek and the English don't corespond exactly.

 

Johnv---out of all the smart things you've posted in your 11,000(and some odd) posts---this one has got to be the smartest(and I mean it with all my heart)

"Godly men need to stop whining about what they think qualifies as submission, and start taking seriously their role of loving and headship."

Amen, Brother!!

You get the loving right and the headship right---the submission part will follow suit!!!

 

Yet, the disciples did not have authority over Jesus, nor was Jesus placing Himself under their authority. Jesus humbled Himself, to be sure, but He did not suspend His headship. There is a difference between serving and being under an obligation to obey.

It is significant, I think, that the Bible never uses "submit" in the direction that some today promote.

Andy

 

That, unfortunately, is not always the case. Yes, it makes it easier but I have seen enough counter examples to know that submission will always be difficult for some women just as loving will always be difficult for some men.


Andy

 

Spent 4 years in bible college and many many years studing the word and have seldom seen such a misrepresentaiton of the word!

 

Actually alot of them do but in coming to grips with what the Bible says many women do not know what submit is either. It is a word that has no meaning or is nullified by scripture later.

 

"Mutual submission" is a myth that the liberals (like the CBF, BGCT, Alliance, and other worthless groups) have had to make up.

One interesting point worth noting is that none of the liberals in this thread have given one single text to prove their point.

Men are NEVER commanded to submit to their wife. NEVER.

Eph. 5:21 is the outline for what Paul is about to say. In other words:

Submit one to another:
1. Wives, submit to your husbands.
2. Children, submit to your parents.
3. Slaves, submit to your masters.

If we were to follow the same idea of "mutual submission" in the other cases, you would also have to read it like this:

1. Husbands, submit to your wives.
2. Parents, submit to your children.
3. Masters, submit to your slaves.

Now, how comical is this? Too comical. Men need to man up and stop giving in to the attempts to be feminized and assume their God-given roles. Men who submit to their wives are cowards who shrink down from their responsibility.

Christ NEVER submitted to us. He did submit to the Father. It was the Father's command that Christ come and die.

What we see here (especially in the posts of Johnv and BB) is a misunderstanding of more than just love.

Note the order of 1 Cor. 11.

1. Wife submits to her husband.
2. Man submits to Christ.
3. Christ submits to the Father.

The roles are NEVER reversed.

1. The Father NEVER submits to Christ.
2. Christ NEVER submits to man.
3. The man NEVER submits to the wife.

If a husband voluntarily sets aside his authority in favor of the wishes of his wife, that is still a reflect of the fact that he has that authority.

Marriage is not co-leadership.

Egalitarians are just inept theologically. How can anyone feel anything but pity for their weak attempts at exegesis.

 

AAAAAMEN!

 

Do you believe in the institution of slavery? Should Lincoln never have issued the Emancipation Proclamation? Are black people inferior to white people? Should we still have separate drinking fountains and rest rooms?

But the declaration that wives must submit to their husbands is in the same passage of scripture. Do you believe part of the Bible (conveniently) but not all of it?

I believe that these statements MUST be interpreted in light of their cultural and historical context. Women are not inferior to men as much as you would like to believe so. God created us all equal in His eyes and Christ died to save us all, men and women. If you erroneously consider this to be liberal that's your problem. It's the gospel.

 

The Bible teaches that the master/slave relationship is an example of how some believers must submit to others. “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere hear, as you would Christ.” (Eph. 6:5, ESV)

We are all the same in our need for a savior and how God deals with our relationship to Him. The Bible does teach that hierarchal relationships within the body of Christ are right and good. Eph. 5:21-6:9 is just one example of such teaching.

Because God says there is a need. It matters which one it is because God teaches us that the husband has that position, not the wife. It is unlikely that the person “doing the wrong thing” will submit whether they ought to or not.

I’m afraid I have seen guys not take stands in the home regarding a whole host of important spiritual matters because it was against the will of their wives. Sometimes the man is a coward. Sometimes he is not spiritually mature enough to know when he ought to assume his headship in the home. Things simply will not work right in the home when the man gives the headship of the home to his wife. Nor will things work right if he fails to love his wife properly.

Andy

 

I think it is a mistake to limit our discussion of slavery in the Bible to the abominable practice of slavery that occured in our country's history. Criminals in jail today are basically slaves. Do you believe in the slaverly of the American penal system? How should an inmate act towards a corrections officer? Should he not obey?


Andy

 

I think male submission to women is:
Talking with them gently and kindly.
Dealing with them gently and kindly.
Loving them. Always. No matter what.

 

Saggy, that sounds like respect and not submission. Respect has to be earned.

 

My own 4 years in Bible college and many years studing the word would disagree with you.

 

I went to a Baptist Women's college and the teaching I had then and in my 54 years of life.... agrees with Timtoolman.

My husband spent four years at Ottawa Baptist University in Ks. and we both took courses at Moody too. Jim agrees with Timtoolman also.

Diane