Mark Jeske

I'm not quite sure of the message he is trying to convey. Can you elaborate some more?

 

Who cares? This is just fear-mongering unsubstantiated conspiracy poppycock. Sorry to sound so strong but this kind of stuff is ridiculous because it get Christians away from what they really should be focusing on- the Gospel.

The Gospel is not about stopping the US from becoming a police state (if that would ever happen)
The Gospel is not about stopping abortion
The Gospel is not a right to own guns
The Gospel is not about moral reform in America.
Its about glorifying God by the proclamation of the greatest news the world has ever heard.

So stop worrying about secret government theories and just serve Christ in joy without fear.

When the government tells you that you can not live for and serve Christ then and only then you may resist. But no matter how many rights you think are take away or how corrupt your government because or how evil your leaders are you still as a Christian have the biblical obligation to submit yourself to their rule until they tell you to deny Christ.

 

Prove that from Scripture. I see the complete opposite.

Therefore submit yourselves to every ​3​ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, 14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men— 16 ​ as free, yet not ​r​using liberty as a cloak for ​​vice, but as bondservants of God. 17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear ​s​God. Honor the king.

Consider the original audience of 1 Peter. Christians facing terrible injustice and persecution. They had no rights. They were hunted down and killed but not once are they told to respond with violence. Just simple humility in a lifestyle that makes God supreme so that He receives all the glory.

The only right I see we as humans have before God is the right to eternal damnation. Anything above that is His grace.

So prove to me from Scripture that we can fight back.

 

1. I am not defending a corrupt and godless government they have to answer to God for their actions.

2. Moses was called by God for a special purpose to lead Israel, God´s chosen people, free. So I don´t even think this applies to the situation. Not to mention it was God who fought against Egypt not Moses nor the the Israelites.

3. Where does the Bible gives us rights not to be slaves? Where the Christian slaves in the early church to rebel against their masters? Kind of hard to say yes when you consider what Peter told them: Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh. 19 For this is ​u​commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For ​v​what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God (The word servant is literally a slave or bondservant)

4. You still have not given me on bit of Bible evidence to show that we are supposed to rebel against corrupt governments. I am still waiting.

 

OK so you quote Jack Hyles (which does not t go very far with me). How about some Bible to support your position. Does it not bother your that you have not been able to offer up one shred of biblical evidence to back up your claims?

True believers will never receive the mark and we really don´t need to worry about it. Just do what God called you to do. Live a live that demonstrates the glory of God to all men and proclaim the Gospel of God to all men.

Does that mean the we should let them take our freedoms away ?you asked. We live in a democracy that allows us to vote. Do your duty as a good citizen and if your candidate looses accept that as God´s plan since he is the one who puts men in and out of power. God controls everything even bad governments.

And if you think the US gov is bad try living in another country. Let me tell, as a conservative republican I would rather take a Clinton or Obama or any other Dem over the people who come to power down here. You just don´t see how good you really have it.

One more thing. Look at the greater part of Church history up to this day and you will see that the vast majority of Christians did not enjoy the freedoms we do in the western modern world.

Oh and I am still waiting for some Scripture from you. Unless you can convince me from the Bible that I do not have to submit to the civil authorities God puts in place I can not change.

 

If God has not planed everything then He is not in control of everything. Sometimes God uses evil to accomplish his purposes.

Finally you give me some Scripture, but I do not see how they apply at all to the idea that we can resist government and not follow the biblical mandate to submit to our civil authorities.