Marriage

[SIZE=+0]I certainly agree with standards that are in accord with scripture. I do not agree with personal ideals that are brought about by a socialist mind set. In my reply salty set a 1 year waiting time. that has no scriptural support. The guidelines for marriage are set by the Lord, not the Pastor or some frivolous standard that means nothing to the Lord.[/SIZE]

 

2. Why are you even bringing up socialism? A pastor wanting to ensure the couple begin a solid marriage has nothing to do with the government.

While the desire is commendable expecting people to wait for any length of time is not. The pastor is a teacher of God's word, not the marriage police. Setting a time period for marriage is not the Pastors job. Second marrying people is a state given right, not a biblical mandate. Any pastor who decides how long two people should wait until they marry simply has the mindset of a socialist. Socialists believe that they can govern the lives of others better then the individual can govern their own life.
if a pastor really wanted to insure a couples married life he would teach the church what God calls for in the marriage not make up some frivolous time period because of his self appointed values.


3. I never stated I had Scripture support for a one year waiting period (of course I could mention Gen 29:20!). Please do not put words in my mouth

You said that you felt one year was the time period that you felt people should wait. I did not say you said it was scriptural. That is the problem. it is not scriptural.

4. And just what are "the guidelines for marriage are set by the Lord"
It is better to marry then to burn. There is no waiting period.

5. You mention frivolous. I do not have frivolous standards for a wedding. But I suppose that is also subject to interpretation. If you choose to be more liberal - go right ahead.

This is not about liberalism or being a conservative. This is about requiring standards that go beyond the word of God because of a mindset of socialists values. Wanting to press personal standards on others before they can be married. Standards that even the Lord does not require.

and while we are on the subject, it appeasers you believe that you do not even need a marriage license or ceremony to get married (as the Bible does not require either) those marriage licenses are such a frivolous item....

You are correct. A marriage license does not make a God centered marriage. However because that is the standard in this country I do support it, but the marriage license is a state law not a God given ordnance.

 

I guarantee you that the pastor's job IS to guide people in marriage if they are in his church. He's a pastor, a shepherd, and they are sheep. A pastor guides sheep, period. And I guarantee you that I wouldn't marry any couple who had just known each other for three weeks unless the circumstances were very extraordinary. Such a short time shows me that the couple had a very immature view of marriage, and I would actually be doing them a disservice to marry them.

And no one can make me perform a wedding I don't want to! A pastor has rights too, you know! :saint:

 

While I can't (and won't) speak for everyone, I'd say it's definitely a help if both are of the same denomination. Sure would have saved me a whole trouble in my first marriage. She was (still is) charismatic and I'm Baptist. That's as volatile a match as gasoline meeting a spark.

 

Gasp! How come I never knew that?

 

As a pastor I have a right to determine when and when I will not perform a marriage ceremony. I have a very high view of marriage, high standards, and I will not perform a marriage ceremony for just anyone. My policy is for there to be at least a six weeks notice and I require marriage coaching of at least four weeks (No coaching/no ceremony). I require a wedding director to me utilized. I am not a wedding director (no wedding director/no ceremony). I don't preform ceremonies for cohabitating couples who show no sign of repentance and refuse to move apart until the marriage time. I don't perform ceremonies for Christians to marry non-Christians. Generally, I will not perform ceremonies for those with extreme age differences. And, if in the process of working with a couple some other red flag appears I reserve the right to refuse. I make that very clear up front.

 

I completely agree with all of that. The lack of that mindset is a reason the divorce is so high.

 

Well, it sounds like many hold to the American way, their rights! However this was never about rights, in fact this was not about requiring a couple to go through marriage counseling before a pastor agrees to marry them or even holding to certain standards like they must both be Christians, or both be of the same denomination or even church or what ever else on those lines. This was about setting an arbitrary time period of waiting for marriage with no particular reason other then someone just thinks that the period they choose is best. That is socialism of the mind and heart.

While I do agree that the pastor has the responsibility to teach his people everything that the Lord commanded, it is not his role to deny marriage to any couple on the base of some capricious waiting period.

If he were doing his job they would have already been taught their respective roles while attending church and bible study from a very young age, but because most pastors today weigh themselves down with just about everything else in the church and world other then study and teaching the word of God the church suffers and when a couple comes for marriage the pastor has to take special time out to give them the basics of their responsibilities in marriage.

The problem is that it is a farce for the most part to cover the irresponsibility of the pastor who had not been doing his job all along of teaching the whole counsel of God, but instead was preaching the same message week after week with different words..
Even in the case of those pastors who so diligently hold to their rights instead of their responsibilities the divorce rate in their perspective churches is just as high as the national average. The outcome of this is that the setting of a time frame instead of a counseling time or more properly teaching them over a period of years though correct bible study may make the pastor feel good about himself and even confirm his rights and give him some sort of power over the lives of others while justifying himself by claiming he is doing God's business, or claiming his rights, it has no base in scripture and certainly no evidence that it matures the couple for marriage.

The proper way would be to teach them over a period of years as they attend, not inject them with a sudden crash course of so called knowledge to make the pastor at peace with himself covering his lack of leading and teaching over the years. Seldom does the counseling have any real effect unless they have already been taught in the home or church over a period of years or even takes hold in the mist of the couples lusts who are seeking marriage which is on the brink of explosion if not actually happening already. The point is that arbitrary time frames to marry a couple are not biblical, and can cause much more harm then good, but I will admit that it probably does offer the pastor some sort of false self gratification that he has done his job even if it is only covering his failure to do the same.

 

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[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]Ann you are making my point! However I assume you did not read my post very carefully. This was not about a 6 weeks meeting and desired marriage. This was about setting an arbitrary time line to cover a pastors failures and conscience. [/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]If the pastor was teaching properly and even one was a member under him then no amount of more counseling will suffice if they reject years of teaching. Like I said it may help the pastor with his conscience to require them to wait a year, but if he has really done his job and his teachings and leadings are still dismissed the waiting another year only pushes them into lustful sin. He does hold some responsibility! [/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]Also i think it is very easy to dismiss or cover a pastors failures when we are too close to the pastor. And like I pointed out there is that word again, it is our RIGHT but we so often forget our responsibilities. [/SIZE][/SIZE]

if the pastor was wise under this kind of circumstance and the parents of the girl was supporting the marriage he would marry them as long as there was no biblical reason against it with the condition that they attend regular biblical lead teachings on marriage and the roles even if it was on a individual bases. let's be wise here. The couple are going to go some place else and be married any how, but with the pastor doing the marriage as long as it does not violate the guidelines in scripture he has at least the possibility of them coming to counseling where if he refuses because he has some extra biblical idea that his judgment is greater then God's he will lose them all together.
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The equally yoked is not an open season offering to pastors to become lord. This is what the catholic church has done. The passage not equally yoked is a command to each individual not to be united to anyone who is not part of the body of Christ. The only qualifications for a believer is to marry in the Lord.
While they do need to understand their roles that is something that should have already been taught them line upon line and precept upon precept over many years starting at around 8 years old. Like I said before if a pastor is doing his job he does not have to become a screening agent on marriage. Since God did not set down a set of guidelines for pastors on how they should or should not marry then they need to abide to what is given and not exceed or at to scripture thinking that they have the answer to divorce while all the time hiding their head in the sand about the truth on the number who do divorce.
My point is that if pastors will do just what they are given and not add to it or take from it with some non scriptural belief they would see the church grow in spirituality. Instead what we are seeing today in the divorce rates of the church is a direct result of pastoral failure to obey their calling.

 

I may be joining a bit late, but I still want to.

1. Should a couple wait until graduation from college to get married.

Depends on what they are led to do. For some it might be wise, but for others completely unnecessary. But we have this issue in our Christian culture of trying to dictate what is always the best route. We're not all called to the same thing.

2. Should a couple move in with the parents/in-laws to save money?

Only if it's absolutely necessary, although this can also be cultural. My wife and I stayed with her parents for a few weeks in the interim time between our lease being up and our house being ready for move it, so money wasn't really the issue.

3. Should a couple be of the same denomination?

Should they? Not unless they know that it would be a huge issue. If they can't get past it and neither is willing to budge, then I wouldn't think it would be wise.

4. Is it that bad for a taller woman to marry a short man?

Is this a joke?

5. Should a couple even consider a pre-nup?

I wouldn't be comfortable with it. It's not for me to judge, though. Follow your conscience.

6. Should the wife even consider keeping her last name?

This is completely the decision of the couple. She get's to make the final decision. It's fine if she wants to take the husband's name, but this is extra-biblical and stems from times when the wife was considered property and marriage a business transaction.

 

I with Ann on this. I very much disagree with freeatlast. It's not like I'm the only marrying agent around. If they don't want to participate according to what I believe are high standards then they are more than welcome to go somewhere else. Men and women who can legally perform marriage ceremonies are a dime a dozen. If you don't like my rules, the church's rules, and are unwilling to submit to Biblical mandates, then there are plenty of marrying joes and sues out there. Knock yourself out and I pray your marriage works out.

 

[SIZE=+0]One would assume that those standards you are speaking of are standards that the pastor feels the Lord would hold if He were here less the Pastor be taking a seat above the Lord. So if those standards are of the Lord and the Lord does not recognize the marriage as being blessed of Him, I assume that is what you are saying because if the Pastor will not marry them then there has to be some reason not to associate himself with the marriage (bless the marriage), does the pastor also put them out of the church or at least start the church discipline process if they marry some where else and return to the church?[/SIZE]