Marriage

Freeatlast-

Do you believe a pastor has an obligation to perform a wedding ceremony if a couple approaches him to do so?

 

because they disobey a directive of the Lord. If the Pastor is a man of God and set standards that are not given in scripture then he certainly arrived at them by prayer. So being a man of God who is carrying out the Lord's leading then if the couple went outside the Lord's will they should be disciplined for thumbing their nose at the Lord.

 

My age is not a factor. What i am trying to get across is the lording over people that some pastors practice in the name of the Lord with absolutely no support for it. it is exactly what the Pharisees did and were so condemned. Just because some pastor has standards that seem good to him does not mean they are of the Lord. For any pastor to come up with his standards instead of the Lord's is blasphemy.
I will assume in your case you have spent many hours praying about the length of time you feel someone should wait and are assured that the Lord would do the same thing. However the problem is why are not every other pastor hearing Him say the same thing if they too are God fearing?

Then there's the problem with those who disregard the Lord in this 1 year wait and marry outside. Of course they cannot have God's blessing on that because he has already revealed to you His wishes so they enter into a marriage without the Lord. So the obvious is that they need to be held accountable with church discipline for snubbing their nose at the Lord.

 

No I do not. In fact I believe he should not preform most of the requests and also there is no such directive in scripture for him to marry people as part of his calling. That being said since pastors have been granted that right from the government which is no problem in itself, and since they are to be the shepherd over the flock any rules or conditions that are set for accepting to marry people should be based on direct scripture reference or come about because of prayer. In other words they are following the Lord, not their own agenda because they think that they are full of wisdom. That way they are not becoming a self appointed lord with personal desires that has nothing to with the things of God, but rather are just the whimsical idea of the man.

 

yes we are related.

 

How do you know if a pastor's standards regarding this subject that are not specifically set in Scripture are set arbitrarily and not as a result of prayer?

 

I don't. I have no problem if a pastor makes that claim as that makes his beliefs authoritative if he is telling the truth. However since it makes his standards authoritative he also has the obligation to take them through discipline if they get married contrary the standards that he claims came from the Lord.
I assume that no man of God would just arbitrarily or from his self proclaimed wisdom set standards that did not come from the Lord.

 

His personal standards authoritative? If they marry anyway they should be disciplined? How would that be right? Isn't church discipline for sin? There's no sin in marriage (excepting Christ's mention of divorce/remarriage). Earlier you cried socialism. It sounds as if you advocate an authoritarian view.

 

Agree with you.:thumbsup:

 

let me deal with this first;
"Not every decision a pastor makes is given in Scripture and not every decision a pastor makes is doctrine."
While the statement is correct the usage and intent is not. It is true that there are things that take place in the church that are not directly spelled out in scripture on what to choose. One might be what color carpet a church has or can the church have a pool table?
Also true is that not all that the Pastor has to deal with constitutes spelled out doctrine derived from scripture. An example might be how many elders or deacons should the church have? However what is not true is that any decision is to be made outside of seeking to glorify the Lord, based on scriptural knowledge and prayer.

In the issue at hand a post was submitted saying that people should have to know each other at least one year before they would be married by that pastor. My contention was and is just where did that come from. If that came about because of prayer and study even in the absence of direct scripture then fine. However if it not come about that way then the standard did not come from God and is frivolous since it came from man and his pride of self knowledge. Why would any man of God who is suppose to be leading the church of the Lord by the Spirit, not by his own beliefs, have standards that do not originate from Him?

In the issue of who and when a pastor should marry a person the pastor has absolutely no command from the Lord. however there are certain standards directed at those who desire to marry and any pastor should incorporate those into his standards. I do believe that he can add to them as long as it is not his personal agenda, but he derived them from study and prayer making his choice of the lord at least in his heart. That way if those involved go outside the the standards that the Lord has lead this man to hold the couple can be taken through church discipline as they have snubbed their nose at the Lord.

Now about the little scenario you gave. it is not clear enough to give an accurate answer. However if the people rebelled and were causing rift in the church by going outside the church because they were angry then yes they should go through discipline. If they simply offered a bible study and it was not in conflict with any church leading then they would be free to do so.

so in the end even though the statement that "not every decision a pastor makes is doctrine" is true, equally true is that every decision should be made based on doctrine either spelled out or pointed to with prayer to glorify the lord and not simply based on a mans personal decision. Who wants a man to lead the church that is not being lead of Christ in every thing he does? Church policy is never to be a guessing game or instituted like a game of darts..

 

There must be if the couple go outside the pastors standard that have come from the Lord. The authoritarian view I am speaking against is the idea that a pastor can implement anything he desires and call it good before God.

 

So if they do not hold the same standard as the pastor's, and Scripture doesn't speak on the matter, it is sin to go elsewhere to be married? If it is not, the issuance of church discipline is unfair and misused.

I agree that a scenario like that is wrong.

 

No that is not what I said. My point was and is if a pastor can set standards other then what are set in scripture, if a couple should marry, then if he is a man of God he certainly must have gotten his new standards from the Lord through prayer.
That be the case if the pastor will not marry the couple because it violates this new God claimed God given directive then if they go some place else and get married and return to that church and pastor who refused to marry them then they should have to go through church discipline because they snubbed their nose at God's directive which this pastor was trying to enforce. What man of God would not put them through church disciplin after they disobeyed a new diredctive from God?

 

Freeatlast- Should church discipline be used only for unrepentant sin, or should it be used to enforce the pastor's will/standard (regardless of how he acquired it), or both?

 

The "pastors will/standard" should never be that which governs the church. This is really what this discussion is about. In the church it should always be the will/standards of God that direct the church without adding personal beliefs. If God's standards are willfully sinned against then yes the person should be dealt with by church discipline and the pastor should be in accord with the will of God. However any time a pastor has his own agenda, will or standards outside the direction of the Lord then church discipline cannot be carried out because it is contingent on the fact that the Lord is in their mist and He would not be there in such cases.