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Featured Martyn Lloyd-Jones on Romans 5:1

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Martin Marprelate, Dec 9, 2018.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    What if Jesus is fully God? I don't mean in a trinitarian formula, but if Jesus really is God in the flesh and there is no ontological difference between Jesus and the Truine God?

    In other words, what if when we look upon the Son we see the fullness of God?
     
    #21 JonC, Dec 13, 2018
  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Confused When we look upon the Son, we do see the fullness of God (Colossians 2:9), yet the Son is not the Father. The Son prays to the Father; the Father does not pray to the Son. The Father sends the Son; the Son does not send the Father. The Son dies upon the cross; neither Father nor Spirit die upon the cross. Beware of Patripassionism! As little as I care for the Church Fathers in many ways, we should not throw over all the ancient creeds (Proverbs 22:28).
     
    #22 Martin Marprelate, Dec 14, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am not speaking of action. I am speaking of ontology.

    How is Jesus different from God?
    In what attributes do you believe Jesus is different from God?
    What passages speaking of God's nature are not addressing Christ's nature?
    What do we know of God apart from a knowledge gained through Christ?
    When we see the Son are we also seeing the Father?
    Are there any aspects of God that are missing in Christ?
     
    #23 JonC, Dec 14, 2018
  4. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is a spiritual being in a fleshly body, so are you . except Jesus spiritual being is God. Jesus is no difference from God, He is God

    There can be no scripture that describes God that does not describe Jesus except to show separation in Jesus purpose here as a man. It seems Jesus as God, created all, all communication to sinners, judges all and died to redeem us.
    We know all judgment is the Son's but judging flesh and blood but spirits
    God is a spirit, We cannot see Him but we see Jesus fresh and blood , we know the spirit, which is God The expressed image is the outward image.

    No aspects of God are missing in Christ as God.As a man He humbled Himself to be as a man
     
    #24 loDebar, Dec 14, 2018
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Does Jesus have the same holiness as God?
    Does Jesus have to have the same attitude towards sin as does God?
    Does Jesus have "too pure of eyes to look upon sin"?
    Does the Old Testament passages about the nature of God also apply to Jesus?
    Does Jesus share the same sense of divine justice that belongs to God?
    Does Jesus actually separate from God (or is Jesus "God with us")?
     
    #25 JonC, Dec 14, 2018
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Is the wrath of God revealed against all ungodliness Jesus’ wrath?

    Is the wrath of God that comes upon the sons of disobedience Jesus’ wrath?

    Is God’s righteous judgment which will be revealed on “the day of wrath” Jesus’ righteous judgment?

    Is God’s “cup of anger” Jesus’ “cup of anger”?
     
    #26 JonC, Dec 14, 2018
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The very wrath of Holy God to be poured out towards sinners was paid in full for just those whom God intended to be saved by the Cross of Christ!
     
    #27 Yeshua1, Dec 14, 2018
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    One big difference though would be that Jesus also is human , and the Father and Spirit are not!
     
    #28 Yeshua1, Dec 14, 2018
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We do not see either the Father nor the Spirit though, correct?
     
    #29 Yeshua1, Dec 14, 2018
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus in the Incarnation was at that time different in some sense that he was before and after, correct? As He Himself prayed to the Father in John 17 to have His former full glory be restored again?
     
    #30 Yeshua1, Dec 14, 2018
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That is all technically God the Father's, isn't it though?
     
    #31 Yeshua1, Dec 14, 2018
  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    The one thing you can be absolutely sure of is that there is no disagreement among the Persons of the Trinity. God is simple, not complex.
    Other than that, I think it would be better to discuss this topic on the new thread that you have opened.
     
    #32 Martin Marprelate, Dec 14, 2018
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Thank you for the response. I do hope a tangent of my questions will be addressed on that thread. On this one, however, I am thinking of your words in post # 20.

    Is there a difference between the wrath of God and the wrath of Jesus?
     
    #33 JonC, Dec 14, 2018
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Why?
     
    #34 JonC, Dec 14, 2018
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He is the One who seems to be in charge of what the marching orders are among the trinity, and Jesus is the One to execute them, along with Holy Spirit!
     
    #35 Yeshua1, Dec 14, 2018
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I mean, why would wrath against sin technically belong to the Father and not the Son if this wrath is based on the holiness of God? Is Jesus less holy than God? Is he less wrathful? Less loving?
     
    #36 JonC, Dec 14, 2018
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We have to go by the scriptures, as it was and is the very wrath of the father to be appeased, and it took the death of Jesus to have that happen!
     
    #37 Yeshua1, Dec 14, 2018
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    But that is not what the Scripture actually states. Scripture does state that Jesus is the exact representation of the Father and that in him the fullness of God dwells bodily.

    Does it?
     
    #38 JonC, Dec 14, 2018
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, but also states that when God is used as a general term, that is pretty much always referring to the Father!
     
    #39 Yeshua1, Dec 14, 2018
  20. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I hope we may have a discussion on this interesting subject. I note, however, that you are asking questions that are not easily answered on a forum such as this. I have learned to my cost that posts of more than about 300 words are not usually answered here. So I hope you will not play 'Twenty Questions' but enter into a genuine discourse.
    No. No more than there is a difference between the justice of God, the longsuffering of God, the mercy of God and the love of God, and those of the Lord Jesus. I hope that if you reply, it will not simply be with another question but that you will deal with the other attributes of God that I have mentioned here. If not, please do not be surprised or disappointed if I don't reply.
     
    #40 Martin Marprelate, Dec 14, 2018
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