May I drive an SUV and eat a hamburger ?

All right then, let's look at the facts shall we. As you will see, the facts will bear me out - my posts are indeed on topic.

Here is the post to which your response was an assertion that I was "off-topic":

This is, of course, squarely addressing the topic.

I shudder to think that your point may be that to get at what the Scriptures have to say on this matter is "off topic".

In a number of threads, a specific political issue gets raised. People then object that I am going off-topic when I make an argument about the underlying Scriptural principles that are at play.

We are talking about these things from a Christian perspective, aren't we?

 

In theory, yes, but in reality, the governments of the world are controlled by the world system, not Christians. One day, Jesus will rule and reign and then we will live under a theocracy that is fair and just. That being said, we as individuals can be good stewards of our natural resources and protect our environment. But to make the US out to be the villain as BHO has done is absurd. We have so many EPA and child labor laws, etc. in place, that is one reason so many products are made in China at a cheap price, because the same standards that apply to our manufacturing do not apply there - they answer to no one, in reality. Also, the SUV issue has nothing to do with it, except it appeals to a certain crowd of Obama followers, many of whom are hypocrites themselves, the far liberal left, who tell the rest of us to not drive SUVs while jetting around the globe and driving expensive gas guzzlers themselves. This is just part of the hate America mantra, the evil, evil America, which, in fact, has done more to feed the starving nations of this world and spread the Gospel throughout the decades than any other nation on the face of this earth. So, let's get real, shall we?

 

If as you say, Christians in every nation should be seeking for their governments to obey the kingship of Jesus Christ, then doesn't that mean not voting for people who are anti biblical in their beliefs? If this is what you beleive christians should be doing, then no christian should be voting for the support of abortion, murdering babies, homos*xuality and the claim it is not immoral.
How does eating beef cause damage to the enviroment?

 

Code for: Andre's posts are on topic as demonstrated and I cannot deny that they are.

 

Man, I should visit the politics forum more often. I didn't know Tinytim was capable of such tough talking! BTW I couldn't agree more.

 

An interesting statment.

My contention all along in a number of threads is that the Christian church, especially since the Enlightenment, has basically got in bed with the "world" and collaborated in kicking God upstairs so that we can "run things down here how we please".

Big mistake.

Christians have, perhaps unwittingly, participated in giving away Christ's lawful authority over all things to the world and its ways.

So while it will be a difficult fight, we cannot and should not do things the way the world does. We need to boldly claim Jesus' authority over all the institutions of our world - even though we will be laughed at by some (even by some in the church). So, for example, if SUVs are an unnecessary luxury that damages God's creation, we should advocate for legislation that limits their production (or whatever).

And we should have the stones to say why we are doing it - because the Earth is the Lord's and He is reclaiming it. We should not simply align ourselves with the atheistic enviornmentalists. We should put our own stake in the ground on this.

When we retreat into a private world where Christian values are only for our "personal lives" and leave the government to the secular - we retreat from our responsbility to implement God's authority over it all.

 

You are absolutely correct here, I have never said that I supported Mr. Obama - I believe that his position is anti-scriptural in a number of areas.

I agree. The challenge is what to do if all of the candidates fall afoul of the Kingdom values we are to promote.

I believe that the demand for beef is a motivation for farmers in a number of countries to cut down forests to make room for the cows to graze.

 

"I believe" isn't a fact, but personal opinion.
Fact is, cows, beef, are given to man to eat by God.

 

For the past 20 years people have been drilling wells in Western Oklahoma at 'deep levels' 4 to 6 miles down (20,000feet to 30,000feet) My grandfather was a welder in the fields near Seminole, Oklahoma back in the 1940s & 1950s. Back then a 'deep well' was one over 2,000 feet.

His theory was if you pump enough oil out of the ground the land will fall in below sea level. The Bay of Oklahoma as big as the Gulf of Mexico would result. Anybody want to buy some Colorado and/or Illinois seashore property for a song?
Oh yes, burning all that oil produces way to much Carbon Dioxide -- a greenhouse gas.

And BTW, all them cows for them burgers emit lots of methane -- a smelly greenhouse gas.

 

I know, yet another population control issue.:laugh: We must save the world from cow f*rts.

 

Who gets to decide this? Conservative Americans want less government in their lives, not more. The free market determines what is produced. Shall we all go back to riding horses and driving horses and buggies? If only Americans produce more legislation (like we don't have enough now) to limit production, that doesn't address the pollution of the environment in China or India or Russia, etc, and all of the other nations of the world, which, btw, those three countries are big competitors for oil and China has by far a greater population who are driving more and more automobiles.

More off topic dribble. God is not reclaiming the earth right now, start another thread on this topic.

Agreed to a point. As far as changing the government, how do you propose to de-secularize the government? Maybe you could start a group in Canada. The greatest responsibility of Christians is to spread the Gospel, they each, individually, answer to God for their actions.

 

Again, the choice is mine - if I want to drive an SUV (and I do have reasons) and conserve in other ways - I get too do that.

*ahem*

 

I agree, the choice is mine to make.

We're on page 10, time to lock it up. The point has been belabored for several pages.....

LE