meaning of Lord?

[freeatlast]

Only a Christian can have Godly sorrow. Where is God in the "ungodly"?
There is no God in the ungodly! That is a contradiction to say that there is; how can the ungodly be Godly? You are not making sense.

Read the passage again. Give me one solid evidence that the passage is not directed to "the saints at Corinth." The saints are those that are saved.

Remember, there are times in the Bible when salvation means more than just spiritual salvation. I believe here it means physical salvation.

This is speaking of the same man back in 1Cor.5. What did it say there?

To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 5:5)
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:15)
--He would lose reward but not salvation.
One can never lose their salvation. The reference here is not to the Great White Throne Judgement, but to the Judgement Seat of Christ.

But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:32)

I repeat;
If that passage is speaking about Christians as you say then all Christians need to be saved according to the passage. Here is what it says

2Cor 7:10For godly sorrow produces repentance [leading] to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

If only a Christian can have godly sorrow as you say then all Christian’s needs to get saved as godly sorrow produces repentance which leads to to salvation, not follows salvation.

 

[glfredrick]

I repeat;
If that passage is speaking about Christians as you say then all Christians need to be saved according to the passage. Here is what it says

2Cor 7:10For godly sorrow produces repentance [leading] to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

If only a Christian can have godly sorrow as you say then all Christian’s needs to get saved as godly sorrow produces repentance which leads to to salvation, not follows salvation.

I'm thinking that you are practicing equivocation with the word "saved" which can have more than the singular usage you are applying to it (salvation). Indeed, however, our "salvation" is not complete until glorification, so there may be some aspect of salvation implied in "saved" other than the fact of God, literally, saving us from some other fate.

Another aspect that more closely relates to the issue at hand is repentance, it being another of the components of salvation.

What is the underlying Greek for the passage? And, does that change what we read in English?

 

[freeatlast]

I'm thinking that you are practicing equivocation with the word "saved" which can have more than the singular usage you are applying to it (salvation). Indeed, however, our "salvation" is not complete until glorification, so there may be some aspect of salvation implied in "saved" other than the fact of God, literally, saving us from some other fate.

Another aspect that more closely relates to the issue at hand is repentance, it being another of the components of salvation.

What is the underlying Greek for the passage? And, does that change what we read in English?

This is in response to both glfredrick and DHK just for the purpose of convenience.

The passage in question is 2Cor 7:10 For godly sorrow produces repentance [leading] to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

I had to go back and see what this was all about based on the context of previous posts. I also did a little more research on the passage and the context of its setting.
I agree totally this passage is speaking to Christians. In this we agree. Paul is commending them for correcting an issue (sin) that they previous and he had pointed out at an earlier time. He clearly says they had repented due to godly sorrow.
He also compares it against it to those who have the sorrow of the world which leads to death. Two kinds of sorrow. One leads to repentance and salvation and one leads to death and eternal destruction.
Paul is commending them on having the type which leads to life as seen by their turning from the wrong (sin).
However that does not eliminate the fact that a person has t come to godly sorrow which leads to salvation as the passage states. Every person has to come to repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. That sorrow that brings them to repentance is godly sorrow. No one would say they has the sorrow of the world and repented.

When DHK posted he was trying to say that an unbeliever cannot have godly sorrow. That is not true. If we cannot have godly sorrow then we cannot come to repentance as godly sorrow produces repentance unto salvation.
Paul is saying, you have expressed that godly sorrow which produced repentance, which leads to salvation that comes about at salvation. So yes he is speaking to the saved, but he is also saying that a lost person has to have godly sorrow which produces repentance to salvation rather then the sorrow of the world which produces death.

 

[glfredrick]

When DHK posted he was trying to say that an unbeliever cannot have godly sorrow. That is not true. If we cannot have godly sorrow then we cannot come to repentance as godly sorrow produces repentance unto salvation.
Paul is saying, you have expressed that godly sorrow which produced repentance, which leads to salvation that comes about at salvation. So yes he is speaking to the saved, but he is also saying that a lost person has to have godly sorrow which produces repentance to salvation rather then the sorrow of the world which produces death.

I believe that one can only have that "godly sorrow" (versus a very human sorrow) when God comes into one's life and begins the process that leads ultimately to salvation.

Before the actions of God, I do not believe that any human can have "godly sorrow" which in fact seems to be precisely what Paul is arguing in that passage.

 

[freeatlast]

I believe that one can only have that "godly sorrow" (versus a very human sorrow) when God comes into one's life and begins the process that leads ultimately to salvation.

Before the actions of God, I do not believe that any human can have "godly sorrow" which in fact seems to be precisely what Paul is arguing in that passage.

Your statements are not clear to me. Are you saying godly sorrow comes after or prior to salvation?

 

[glfredrick]

Your statements are not clear to me. Are you saying godly sorrow comes after or prior to salvation?

"Salvation" is not a one-event occaision, but rather a term that is an overview of multiple events, godly sorrow and repentance being some of them, along with election, effectual call (godly sorrow) faith/repentance, regeneration, justification, adoption, sealing, perseverence, sanctification, and glorification -- all required to completely fulfill "salvation."

As long as you continue to think of "salvation" as a singular event, you will continue to wonder how this or that fits into the scheme of things when in fact, they fit very well.

 

[freeatlast]

Apostle peter an example given in the scriptures as one who had godly repentance...

Did He get resaved, or saved for first time then?

I have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[freeatlast]

"Salvation" is not a one-event occaision, but rather a term that is an overview of multiple events, godly sorrow and repentance being some of them, along with election, effectual call (godly sorrow) faith/repentance, regeneration, justification, adoption, sealing, perseverence, sanctification, and glorification -- all required to completely fulfill "salvation."

As long as you continue to think of "salvation" as a singular event, you will continue to wonder how this or that fits into the scheme of things when in fact, they fit very well.

Let me ask you again as your statements are not clear to me. Are you saying godly sorrow comes after or prior to salvation?

 

[glfredrick]

Let me ask you again as your statements are not clear to me. Are you saying godly sorrow comes after or prior to salvation?

I said it rather clearly, but what I said does not compute because you seem to lack understanding about the term "salvation."

To recap, I said that godly sorrow is a PART of the salvific process.

Now, back to you, when exactly is "salvation" completed?

 

[freeatlast]

I said it rather clearly, but what I said does not compute because you seem to lack understanding about the term "salvation."

To recap, I said that godly sorrow is a PART of the salvific process.

Now, back to you, when exactly is "salvation" completed?

Your skirting the question.
Let me ask you again as your statements are not clear to me. Are you saying godly sorrow comes after or prior to salvation?

 

[glfredrick]

Your skirting the question.
Let me ask you again as your statements are not clear to me. Are you saying godly sorrow comes after or prior to salvation?

Now, your ignorance is showing brother...

Please define salvation. Make sure you include in your definition all of the parts that are required biblically.

 

[freeatlast]

Now, your ignorance is showing brother...

Please define salvation. Make sure you include in your definition all of the parts that are required biblically.

My question first.
Let me ask you again as your statements are not clear to me. Are you saying godly sorrow comes after or prior to salvation?

 

[DHK]

My question first.
Let me ask you again as your statements are not clear to me. Are you saying godly sorrow comes after or prior to salvation?

Can an un-god-like man have God-like sorrow?
Can a man without God have sorrow that comes only from God?

 

[freeatlast]

Can an un-god-like man have God-like sorrow?
Can a man without God have sorrow that comes only from God?

According to the scripture we have to come in godly sorrow to be saved unlike the lost who have the sorrow of the world.
2Cor 7:10For godly sorrow produces repentance [leading] to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

 

[JesusFan]

Can an un-god-like man have God-like sorrow?
Can a man without God have sorrow that comes only from God?

Nope, as repentance itself, the kind that will lead to receiving the Lord comes from God Himself, as part of the "salvation package!"

 

[glfredrick]

My question first.
Let me ask you again as your statements are not clear to me. Are you saying godly sorrow comes after or prior to salvation?

One last time... Godly sorrow comes DURING the process of salvation.

 

[JesusFan]

Now, your ignorance is showing brother...

Please define salvation. Make sure you include in your definition all of the parts that are required biblically.

just curious here...

Could the problem in discussion here due to the fact that Fal is confusing/mixing together ALL the processes of salvation into being at same time?

I am saved right now, butto be fully complete when glorification happens, and until that time, will still be involved in growing more into image of Christ?

 

[glfredrick]

just curious here...

Could the problem in discussion here due to the fact that Fal is confusing/mixing together ALL the processes of salvation into being at same time?

I am saved right now, butto be fully complete when glorification happens, and until that time, will still be involved in growing more into image of Christ?

Is that not just what I said above?

 

[freeatlast]

One last time... Godly sorrow comes DURING the process of salvation.

What does that mean? During? Does a person have to come to God in Godly sorrow to be saved? Can a person come to God without Godly sorrow and be seeking salvation?

 

[JesusFan]

Is that not just what I said above?

I caught it, was just wondering if Fal had caught it!