Messianic Jew's and Shabbat

hmm. After posting D.L.Moody's debunking of your arguments in favor of man-made traditions - you respond that only Adventists would accept D.L. Moody????

Just How far down in that sand are you buried?? Why not respond to D.L Moody's arguments instead of blindly pretending that if I don't post them they don't exist????

Your methods are transparent when your arguments fail sir.

The fact that D.LMoody's arguments torpedo your failed attempts to prop up man-made tradition should not be "blamed on me". You are doing way tooo much "pretending" sir.

Fantastic - "Post D.L Moody and instantly Gen will IGNORE you" --!!:tongue3: :laugh:

It is posts like that - that make my job "wayyyyy too easy".:applause:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=891172&postcount=19

Your decision to "runaway" when confronted with D.L Moody's arguments is understandable given the lack of substance in your arguments so far. D.L.Moody was very much more on target in terms of the Bible principles he is outlined than have been your arguments so far. Your "rant-and-run" tactic merely provides the finishing "proof" for D.L.Moody's arguments as they expose the flaws in yours.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Here is a link to an interesting article by Rev. Mark Robinson (a Jewish believer himself) concerning the "Doctrinal Dangers in the Messianic Movement" :

Here are some excerpts:

 

St Paul in particular writes as if there was only one OT "Law" or covenant. He should have known better. I think it was intentional error to sell gentiles who don't know any better.

>While it is true that Gentiles in the OT were called to keep Sabbath

The Sabbath was observed long before Moses was born. All humans including gentiles are obligated by the pre- Abrahamic covenants.

 

I have attended some Messianic Jewish services from time to time and have seen a little of what the source Linda is quoting metioned.

However there is one statement in her quote that makes no sense at all -

"the present practice of the observing of holy days such as Yom Kippur, as well as other practices, are rooted in rabbinic Judaism, not the Bible."

How in the world are "Biblical Holy days" NOT Biblical????

In Christ,

Bob

 

Preach it!

(As Ed would say)

 

Gekko:
"i may not be seventh day adventist - but bob's got a point here."

GE:
I certainly am not SDA, but 'seventhdayer' 100%; but I say, Bob's 'info' is useless and malappropriated. Moody never had one word to say in favour of the Seventh Day Sabbath, and that's the ONLY fact about Bob's misuse of him.

 

Billwald:
"The Sabbath was observed long before Moses was born."

GE:
Where do you read that?

Billwald:
"All humans including gentiles are obligated by the pre- Abrahamic covenants."

GE:
Also Christians?

 

The fault with all Sabbatharians is they all claim the full revelation of the Sabbath in the Old Testament dispensation while failing to recognise the full revelation of it in the New Testament dispensation.

 

Linda64:
"It saddens me to see this legalism creeping in-I love my Jewish brothers and sisters in the Lord-and I also love my Gentile brothers and sisters in the Lord. The Gentile believers do NOT need to become “Jewish” to keep their salvation-and the Jewish believers do not have to keep the Law to stay saved either. Sunday worship is NOT pagan-our Lord rose on Sunday, which is the first day of the week. The Shabbat did not change to Sunday-it is still on the seventh day. Yeshua is my Shabbat-my Rest-I rest in Him alone. For He alone is the fulfillment of the Law."

GE:

I fully accept what you say, "It saddens me to see this legalism creeping in-I love my Jewish brothers and sisters in the Lord-and I also love my Gentile brothers and sisters in the Lord. The Gentile believers do NOT need to become “Jewish” to keep their salvation-and the Jewish believers do not have to keep the Law to stay saved either."

But allow me reveal to you another legalism the deadly venom of has already lamed the Church it is unable to move a finger against it -- in your words: "Sunday worship is NOT pagan-our Lord rose on Sunday, which is the first day of the week. The Shabbat did not change to Sunday-it is still on the seventh day. Yeshua is my Shabbat-my Rest-I rest in Him alone. For He alone is the fulfillment of the Law." This is the legalism of the lie.

""Sunday worship is NOT pagan-our Lord rose on Sunday..." A double-lie! Sunday worship (its very name betrays its true nature), is, 'pagan'. But it's worse: it's a 'christian'-paganism. It has been Christians who have ascribed holyness to Sunday and continually have defended iit. Then these same Christians so much despise their own Master they misapply His sanctifying resurrection to Sunday, having stolen it from the Day the Lord has blessed with it, namely, His Day of Rest through and in Jesus Christ when He rose Him from the dead "In Sabbath's-time" (Mt28:1). So you have the transgression of the Law against using the Name of the Lord in vain, against stealing, against giving false witness, against worshipping other gods, against breaking the Sabbath ... all through the introduction of men's own law of willful worship. The New Legalism of Sunday-worship: and unless you adhere to it, youre excommunicated and damned. Then I would rather choose the old legalism of Judaism. Or better throw out the lot and worship under the Covenant of Grace, "feasting Sabbaths' Feast", as Paul declared in Colossians 2:16.

Thandk you.
Gerhard Ebersoehn, a Chrstian and resurrection-Sabbatharian to the honour and glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

 

BobRyan:
"I have attended some Messianic Jewish services from time to time and have seen a little of what the source Linda is quoting metioned.

However there is one statement in her quote that makes no sense at all -

"the present practice of the observing of holy days such as Yom Kippur, as well as other practices, are rooted in rabbinic Judaism, not the Bible."

How in the world are "Biblical Holy days" NOT Biblical????"

GE:
That's not what she said -- typical of you!

 

Eliyahu:
" we should rememer are the following facts.
1) Even in the Old Testament, the first day of the week was special.( Lev 23:7) and often 8th day meant the new start like the new millenium. (Lev 14:10, 23:36, 23:39)
2) Jesus rose up on the first day of the week.
He appeared again on the first day of the week ( Jn 20:19) showed up again on the eighth day ( Jn 20:26)
3) Holy Spirit inaugurated on Pentecost which must be the first day of the week all the time.

I do trust and appreciate the claim that Constantine declared Sunday as a "Holy and Respectful Day for Sun god" as he believed the solar god, but it might be a duplication of the 2 customs, Christianity and pagan.

Disciples gathered together on the first day of the week ( Acts 20:7) on which they broke the bread and shared the wine in remembrance of Lord Jesus. They collected the donations on Sunday (1 Cor 16:1-2). I don't think they gathered on Saturday and then came back again to give the donations. I know there is a contraversy on the Lord's day in Rev 1:10 but I cannot believe it as Sabbath but as the first day of the week on which the Lord rose again."

GE:
All the bigoted 'laws' of Sundayism in a few sentences! You are unable to substantiate a single one, because in toto they contradict the Scriptures, its prophecy, its symbolism, its promise, its trend - every aspect of it - from beginning to end.

 

...And then there are those who pretend that Adam fell and mankind was condemned on day six of creation week after which God "saw that it was good" and make the Sabbath.

I prefer to follow the Bible instead.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Gekko had it right - as usual.

GE was out in left field - as usual.

Another quote from D.L. Moody coming up.

 

Originally Posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn
The fault with all Sabbatharians is they all claim the full revelation of the Sabbath in the Old Testament dispensation while failing to recognise the full revelation of it in the New Testament dispensation.


...And then there are those who pretend that Adam fell and mankind was condemned on day six of creation week after which God "saw that it was good" and make the Sabbath.

I prefer to follow the Bible instead.

In Christ,

Bob

GE:
Will you be so kind as to supply that Bible instead you so prefer, here on this thread? I would love to read it and find its placing in the Bible; for I cannot find it however I looked for it.

 

Yes you do seem to be having a hard time finding the Bible on this one - I agree.

But I ALREADY POSTED the Gen 1 text on the SIXTH day showing that God pronounced ALL things on that day GOOD!!

You "alone" imagine that He is pronouncing the fall of mankind "GOOD" on day six!!

you "ALONE" imagine that Adam leaped up and immediately sinned on day 1 of his life!!

you "ALONE" imagine that God gave His Holy Seventh-day to mankind IN SIN and in SALVATION as a sign to Adam of the promised REDEEMER

BY CONTRAST (I have already pointed out a zillion times) that GOD SAID "THEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED the SABBATH day and MADE IT HOLY" and when we LOOK at the THEREFORE - we find NO MENTION AT ALL of the FALL of Adam given as the REASON leading up to that THEREFORE!!

The Bible is so clear on this point and your bogus wild speculation so fully debunked - no wonder you pretend you can "find no bible" on the topic that so exposes your faulty logic and man-made-insertions into the text!!

(ok - I have to confess a little delight in exposing your wild imaginings on this one point -- )

In the mean time - D.L. Moody fully ACCEPTS the "THEREFORE" reasoning given by God -

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=891172&postcount=19

And that is pretty amazing given that you claim to honor and Keep the day better than he!!!

In Christ,

Bob

 

You force me to also behave like a child!
You as usual lying again:
"You "alone" imagine that He is pronouncing the fall of mankind "GOOD" on day six!!"

What else can I say? Nothing! Nothing, 'on this one'. because it's so blatant a lie.

 

BR:
"you "ALONE" imagine that Adam leaped up and immediately sinned on day 1 of his life!!"

GE:
I have told you, not that 'alone'! otherwise, yes, your summing up approaches what I think, quite approximately.

 

BR:
"you "ALONE" imagine that God gave His Holy Seventh-day to mankind IN SIN and in SALVATION as a sign to Adam of the promised REDEEMER"

GE:
Hurray!
It proves at last you are not too dense to understand me! You are even clever enough to put it in words better than I could myself!