Messianic Jew's and Shabbat

GE:
Another example of how perfectly you have in possession all knowledge and insight; actually how you are the dispenser of it with keys and all to the drug cabinet.
But I bet my entire fortune you haven't read a line from any but your kin in doctrine and dogma on the overwhelming and infathomable meaning of this word from the cross.

 

thats a silly thing to say, Bob no more thinks he has the truth on this than you do. Thats what I mean, instead of giving bible proof you resort to this type of thing continually.

 

GE:
I know this quotation; and I know its context and historical setting. I got a distinction in Church History third year BA, but never got further. It was far enough for this purpose and end though, I know it - received from you, it means absolutely nothing to me, zero.

 

wow I am crushed.

It certainly means something to me.

"They allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord's day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it appear, neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments." Martin Luther, Augsburg Confession of Faith, art. 28.


**sitting here eating a bowl of soup and feeling hurt**

 

Martin Luther had seen nothing yet, for the best was still to come. This same power that thought he could change Time and Law of God's, saw fit to pervert the Word in much more effective ways than in Luther's time. He resorted to the Scriptures itself, and today through the 'Word of God' misleads millions - misleads and mesmerised the absolute majority of righteous Christians - to believe from what they READ, that the God-given honour and virtue of the Sabbath had been transferred to the day of the sun-god, wherein this power has transgressed just about every Commandment of the Ten. Yet men refuse to see - refuse to see with open eyes. People like you, yes.

 

Here's an interesting article about the "Messianic" movement:

http://www.geocities.com/cobblestoneministries/2005_CRM/HRM_Is_it_biblical.html

 

Simply by having changed method or tactics. Instead of 'doctrine' the great liar used translation.
I shout myself hoarse; but nobody hears; I insult and hurt, but nobody feels. I swear and jump and wave, yet nobody sees. "After the Sabbath on the First Day ..." is the BIGGEST hoax in the history of Christianity with the vastest effect, in fact as vast as the 'monstrous scope' of the Sabbath-truth itself.

 

Yes, Karl Barth has triggered this tsunami in my mind - he and Klaas Schilder, (and Jonathan Edwards) who wrote so sublimely on the Sabbath of the Bible. How could they, yet instead of the Sabbath, practiced Sunday-observance? That was the question for me for the very life of me to answer.
Then I studied Juergen Moltmann, and learnt what pathetic means. Never has the Sabbath been so degraded as by this theologian.
I had to do something ... so am at this moment fighting on.

 

This to me is warfare; it seems no other way works. You will not find this attitude anywhere in my books to date - they were still written in a 'civilised' manner. My web-page reached 9300 hits and something like 1200 pages delivered in the month of November 2006 - which to me looks promising. Meantime I have had no real or worthwhile reaction. I and a few friends share a mutual faith in this 'doctrine', and I have received some letters of appreciation from Germany, Nehterlands and America so far : but nothing specatcular or sensational. May it never happen! For that moment I shall know 'my' viewpoint is too acceptable to be genuine.

 

Well thats nice, no wonder you are confused if you take after Karl Barth, the supporter of Communism and Socialism


Barth the Communist
Barth praised the good intentions of the Communists and even specific Communist dictators, such as Joseph Stalin. Writing in “The Church Between East and West” (1949), Barth defended his vocal anti-anti-Communism:

"It is pertinent not to omit to discriminate in our view of contemporary Communism between its totalitarian atrocities as such and the positive intention behind them. And if one tries to do that, one cannot say of Communism what one was forced to say of Nazism ten years ago - that what it means and intends is pure unreason, the product of madness and crime. It would be quite absurd to mention in the same breath the philosophy of Marxism and the “ideology” of the Third Reich, to mention a man of the stature of Joseph Stalin in the same breath as such charlatans as Hitler, Goering, Hess, Goebbels, Himmler, Ribbentrop, Rosenberg, Streicher, etc. What has been tackled in Soviet Russia - albeit with very dirty and bloody hands and in a way that rightly shocks us - is, after all, a constructive idea, the solution of a problem which is a serious and burning problem for us as well, and which we with our clean hands have not yet tackled anything like energetically enough: the social problem."


Barth declared that Communism was not and by its very nature could not be anti-Christian:

"In its relationship to Christianity, Communism, as distinguished from Nazism, has not done, and by its very nature cannot do, one thing: it has never made the slightest attempt to reinterpret or to falsify Christianity, or to shroud itself in a Christian garment.... There is nothing of the false prophet about it. It is not anti-Christian."


No wonder you have such strange ideas about Jesus.

In 1916 Karl Barth wrote that the “capitalistic order and... the war are the two greatest atrocities of life.” In the first edition of his commentary on Romans, written during World War I, he declared that a time will come “when the now dying embers of Marxist dogma will flare up anew as world truth, when the socialist church will rise from the dead in a world become socialist.” In “Jesus Christ and the Movement for Social Justice,” published in 1911, he explained the relationship between Jesus and socialism:

"If you understand the connection between the person of Jesus and your socialist convictions, and if you now want to arrange your life so that it corresponds to this connection, then that does not at all mean you have to “believe” or accept this, that, or the other thing. What Jesus has to bring us are not ideas, but a way of life. One can have Christian ideas about God and the world and about human redemption, and still with all that be a complete heathen. And as an atheist, a materialist, and a Darwinist, one can be a genuine follower and disciple of Jesus. Jesus is not the Christian world view and the Christian world view is not Jesus."

 

Gerhard wrote:
"Yes, Karl Barth has triggered this tsunami in my mind - he and Klaas Schilder, (and Jonathan Edwards) who wrote so sublimely on the Sabbath of the Bible. How could they, yet instead of the Sabbath, practiced Sunday-observance? That was the question for me for the very life of me to answer.
Then I studied Juergen Moltmann, and learnt what pathetic means. Never has the Sabbath been so degraded as by this theologian.
I had to do something ... so am at this moment fighting on."



Maybe your idea of what "sublime" is... is out of whack?

Never read it before about the Sabbath but Im just guessing.

 

If you've never read it, how can you even guess it's "out of whack"? (Whatever that may mean -- me talking just like you knowing not what.)

Just by the buy, I may inform you Karl Barth wrote such great stuff about the Sabbath not a few doctorates were obtained by scholars from your Church on the same Karl Barth's writings on the Sabbath. He was the greatest, and I loved him! Still do! Ever will!

 

First of all, the fact that certain people in my own church might read whatever this Karl Barth has to say is beside the point and irrelevant. Out of millions of people in a denomination SOMEBODY is bound to go off in the deep end, just as some people did in the days of Christ.

In EVERY Church SOMEBODY is going to listen to someone who is teaching falsehoods.
But that doesn't make it right...


I think if I were you, I'd go with THIS idea when it comes to Karl Barth, the Commuist Supporter and his ideas about the Sabbath or anything else for that matter:

Job:14:4: Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.

I really do not think that God designed we should have to try to wade through a massive amount of error to find a glimmer of "truth" [and I use that term loosely in this case anyway].

You know, you keep on acting as if you were a "martyr"... going around moaning and groaning because nobody will listen to your ideas about the Sabbath.

Well can I just say Hellooooooooooooooooooooooo... maybe you ought to stop and think a bit about exactly where you are getting your information from? [ ]---------- BONK!! ...someone needs to whop you over the head and wake you up.

Start reading the Bible [it's a concept thing].

Claudia

 

At last we see GE fully unmasked - his tactics fully exposed - his methods fully revealed.

How sad.

In Christ,

Bob

 

GE:
Now I don't know if you are sarcastic here or not, but I won't be, but must tell you, I have never felt so bad and so dirty after having written my 'zero'-post ... untill I wrote my post on my 'distinction' ... the worst and fowlest lines I've written in all my life, I despise and loathe myself. This night and day have been very long for me. I prayed God, please don't let me die today, but give me the time to ask Claudia's forgiveness, and please Lord, forgive Thou me for these sinfull things I've said. I cannot make good for it; I cannot undo my words - they are indelibly engraved in the rock hard surface of cybrespace for ever --- as well as in the tender hearts of human beings Thy children. These posts and these words of mine will haunt me for the rest of my life. O God, I can only ask, please forgive me.

 

And here we see BobRyan fully understands. You have no excuse left. You full well know what the truth is --- let's see if you can live with it, or will sweep it under the carpet.

 

We shall see if you will proclain the lie of antichrist, of the truth of Jesus Christ.

 

Claudia T:
"...Karl Barth, the Commuist Supporter ..."

GE:
Well well, that says it all! My oh my!
If it weren't I realise other people read these posts, I would not have written another in conversation with either you or BobRyan or any SDA for that matter --- it is pointless but for these others.

 

Gerhard,

Thank you for asking my forgiveness. I forgive you and you dont need to worry about it at all. Everybody makes mistakes.

I have not acted perfectly towards you either. How about if we both try to act more kind to each other from now on, okay? I also ask your forgivessness for my past harsh remarks.

Claudia

 

About your quotes from Barth, Claudia,
It is obvious you have read none of them in context, but quote them from someone who quoted from someone who quoted. In other words, the compilation of these quotes is not your own work. And should be appreciated for it value accordingly. This time I may say without feeling bad about it, it mean nothing in itself, and you obtain a zero mark for your work.

All these remarks of Barth's should be seen against the background of the warfare he waged against all the great evils of his own life-time. He had to criticise Christianity for its shortfalls, of course he had! As a theologian it was his duty. And one very bad habit of Christianity is to always project its own sins and neglegencies upon other 'ideologies'.
Karl Barth also said Roman Catholicism or the pope is not anti-christ. Does that make him a Roman Catholic?
Yes, that is the mark of the great thinker, that he will and must say things one could not accept or agree with always. And at the same time it is the mark of the shallow, that he will always resort to mean tactics, the most popular of which is to extract and isolate 'here a little there a little'. (Just like the method condemned somewhere in Isaiah.)

But how great Karl Barth really was, becomes evident from his attitude towards his own achievements. He once said (as he surely several other times and consistently would) that if all his books were to be burned, it would be good and even better.
But the height of his greatness for me is most beautifully illustrated by the incident when a (American) theological student asked him what for him has been his greatest 'discovery' -- or something to the effect (I don't quote). He answered: "Jesus loves me because the Bible tells me so."

Make friends with some others not of your own 'Fold' - you won't be sorry.