Michael Anthony Peroutka Endorses Ron Paul

No, not really. You can set a deadline, but as you well know, when working with people in different situations, deadlines are not always practicable. I think benchmarks are measured in terms of accomplishment. Certainly a date can be included in that, but a date is not the total measurement. I can't imagine very many venutures in which success can be measured in such a way. I imagine you can't either, and you really don't think it should be here.

If they had 17 of 18 benchmarks, would you be willing to give them more time to get the 18th? If so, then you agree with me that deadlines do not have to be absolute, so long as reasonable progress is being made. If you would not give them more time to reach the 18th, then that is a crazy idea. I am glad that people like you don't run the world, if that is your position.

Not knowing what you think a benchmark is, I have no way of knowing. I didn't know you disagreed with me on the benchmarks being binding until you told me, so I certainly will not pretend to know what you think now.

A benchmark is typically a standard by which you measure progress or compare things of the same nature. You may have some different definition so I won't vouch for you.

Feel free to disagree, even STRONGLY. It doesn't bother me.

 

Is there some point to your repetition? Do you think we didn't see if the first time? Is this a sign that you have nothing more constructive to add to the conversation but would feel left out if you just shut up and didn't say anymore? What's the point?

I am not qualified to go, and I have a higher calling. You seem to be under some mistaken impression that someone who hasn't served in the military has no right to speak. I strongly disagree. Back when I was younger I strongly considered serving and concluded that the gospel ministry was God's call on my life. So I have pursued that.

If you have something constructive to add to the conversation, please do so. Otherwise, refrain from the personal insinuations against me simply becaus eyou disagree with me. You might be wrong, you know.

 

Your opinion of what I should or should not say is irrelevent. Personally, I could care less if you served or not. That was your choice. There is nothing to keep someone from serving then going to be a pastor. The bottom line is that you are always raking people over the coals for expressing opinions without experience. In the area of military service or sacrifice for this country, you have none.

 

You are not telling the truth, I don't think. I have never, to my knowledge, raked someone over the coals for expressing an opinion without experience. I have said it is unwise and inappropriate to be dogmatic without comprehensive knowledge of the situation that they are being dogmatic about. Please understand what I say rather than make it up on your own.

As for military service, for me, it would have been sin to join the military. For others, it would not have been. I have a higher callign in life and am pursuing that. That doesn't exempt me from having an opinion. But as I generally do, I have tried not be dogmatic about issues that I don't know about.

But here, my issue is that you would rather attack me on some supposed grounds rather than address the issues we have been talking about ... which seems to indicate you have nothing constructive to say about it and therefore resort to attacking me. I find that weak and off topic, like this thread needed any more diversions.

 

So I support timed benchmarks and you support superfluous open ended benchmarks. Kinda begs the question what's the point of having them if objectives don't have to be achieved until "someday".

Btw, I'm trying like crazy to figure out what vested interest you have in keeping soldiers in Iraq. What's it to you if they get to come home? How will your life be affected? You won't be able to enjoy it any longer or what? It just seems odd that pubs know benchmarks weren't met in a timely fasion and still seem to have no problem going forward with no end in sight. This isn't a hobby for you is it? With no WMD's, few accomplished benchmarks, growing hostitilities with other nations now, and al-Qaeda recruitments on the rise, please tell me that you aren't glad we invaded Iraq. Does hindsight count for nothing? If for no one else, I think you should have pity on your own political party and push for a withdrawal.

 

Where did I say I support superfluous open ended benchmarks? Until you can show me that I believe that, I will wait. I don't know how to respond to something I don't believe.

As opposed to being achieved immediately? I don't agree with totally open-ended benchmarks, and my previous post to you made that clear when I said setting dates was a part of it. I guess you missed those words, or chose to ignore them.

The point of having objectives is to measure progress.

My own political party? I have none. I never have. In my college days, I did some work for the Republican party, but I have never officially been a part of them, and don't really like the Republicans now. I am not glad we invaded Iraq. I have said before that knowing then what we know now, we probably should not have. But we did. The question is not "What if?" It is "What next?" I think the "what next" is finish. Go after terrorists in Iraq with a vengeance and destroy them. Don't give up the country to them. You appear to differ.

I have no vested interest other than valuing life and democracy and believing that once we start we ought to finish. We didn't do it in Vietnam and it took years to live down, and some to this day suffer from the political decisions that were made to pull out or fight in a limited fashion. There are terrorists slaughtering people in Iraq and if we pull out it will continue. I think that valuing life means we fight back. I think the image of God in man means something even for non-Americans. It has nothing to do with my life or comfort. I am unconcerned with that.

The benchmarks, according to the last report, were progressing. We need to see more. We need to keep putting pressure on them to make progress. But we need to give them chance to do it.

Here's where you and I differ I think (note that these are my thoughts based on our conversation; I note that to head off any charge that I am making up your views; I am not; I am simply saying what it appears to me).

I value democracy and think others do to, if given the chance. I think we should stand up for it and try to make it work. You don't. That's fine. That's simply a difference that we have.

I envision a future where the middle east has some functioning democracies who will address terror on their own so that we do not have to address it and so that we do not have to fear it. You differ. That's fine. But let's acknowledge the true differences. Don't just make something up and then pretend I believe it.

I believe that we should not let American blood be spilled in vain. I think we should therefore finish what we start. You differ. That's fine.

Again, I ask you, if they have 17 of 18 benchmarks met, would you still insist on pulling out? (I noticed you didn't answer that. Perhaps you overlooked it earlier).

 

I have this nagging feeling that I'm going to have this same conversation with your kids or grandkids one day. What is so unreasonable about ANY sort of deadline is beyond me...

 

Considering that the benchmarks are the simplest tasks for a true "democracy" absolutely!

Here follows some of the unmet stuff:

 

Yes. Immediately after we invaded the powers that be were given a scant three seconds to comply.

 

I should hope so. It would not be good if there were no opposition to your misguided ideas.

At least we agree on that.

So if they accomplished 17 of 18 and were working on the 18th, you would pull out? Unreal ... Unbelievable ... Yet at the same time, strangely believable.

 

It takes lots of nerve calling someone else's ideas misguided. You mean misguided as in it is a sin to join the military in service to our nation. I wonder what kind of shape our nation would be in today if the millions that have served and sacrificed thought it was a sin. What on earth would you be talking about today? It would probably be in German under control of the state.

Keep your original ideas coming. Humor is an essential of life.

 

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