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Michelle Obama - Lie to your kids for a cause

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by annsni, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member
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    Where? You and rbell said this in reaction to post #25, but where in that post am I pointing at white people or blaming them for anything? I was talking more about blacks and addressing your whole claim of why they seemed to be "ahead" in the sexual immorality you all accused them of, and I only mentioned the larger white or Christian culture in terms of how it was changing as a whole. That's not "pointing at" them.

    You always do this with these claims about what someone else has said. You yourself can say the most outlandish things about other people or groups, then accuse the other person of this, and read it into any statement where it's just not there.

    He's addressing the community as one of them, trying to get them to improve themselves. Now, it's so funny, as you all keep arguing here that no one is "calling the black community out", but we see here that there is.

    Oh, but he was criticized by a group of people for it. So what? You expect a whole group of people to just snap up and change? Who else does? Christians scold the entire country and even segments of the contemporary Church for its sins, and are they changing? No; they're going further away! No one likes correction.
    It was shouted here and elsewhere last year (when they were in the news) that the NAACP is an outmoded institution, concerned about its own survival and struggle for relevancy, and I did not even dispute that.

    So neither they, nor the other figureheads of Sharpton and Jackson are any excuse for other groups to then take it upon themselves to sit back and scold the entire community (with all of this anger and utter CONTEMPT I am detecting here, which is the real point) just because a few people or leaders (who don't even really represent the community anymore) don't like his correction.

    And don't forget about some of the other stuff said here. Blacks aren't like any other people! Endless comparisons of how they are so much "worse" as a group than everyone else. They only voted for Democrats to get "something for nothing".
    I don't think Cosby was saying all of that! He's addressing those "to whom the shoe fits"; or a few "knuckleheads" within the community; not "the black people" as a whole like I see here. (For then, that would include him as well. Unless you surmise he's "a good one")!

    So yes, correction is more trustworthy when it is from one's own group. And sadly, there is not enough of it. But then it is so easy to talk about some other group one does not identify with.
    So that is not going to be trusted by the people. You don't trust any other group that criticizes your group.
     
  2. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Addressing the community as a whole does not, in fact, ever intend to include every single person. It does address a very large portion. And please do not accuse me of what you do not know about me. God Bless.
     
  3. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    So essentially you are saying that whites have no business generalizing or criticizing African-Americans ever. And we saw that demonstrated just recently when Dallas County Commissioner John Wiley Price, facing criticism, retorted that they were all white and that they could just go to hell. But thanks for clarifying the rules sir.
     
  4. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Believe it or not Targus, I like your post and the ones you made earlier on this thread. If the graduation rate in Detroit is 25%, then we have a real problem to overcome to help these kids to become productive citizens. It should be based on honesty, being accountable for your own actions (in this case, grades) and striving to achieve the goal of being an independent, productive citizen as an adult. It starts with both parents being there to raise them, with outer family, church and community for additional support.

    Frankly, there are many misinformed comments on this thread (to be nice) that show a total lack of understanding. Why in this year of 2011 is there even a hint or post of distinguishing between black and white. We are all human beings created by the same God. Had most of you grown in in southern Mississippi in the 50s and 60s, you might have a different perspective. It is one thing to read about things like this in a book or see them on TV, it is quite another to deal with it day after day for years. For a ten or twelve year old kid to see the three bathrooms, the African-Americans that were either not served at restaurants or forced to eat out back in the alley, or to see them beat up by whites for sport, try observing that everyday.

    Once my mom put me on a city bus to go get her something downtown. I was the only white on the bus. There were African-Americans crammed behind the famous white line, with a lady standing in the aisle with a cane. All these seats around me were empty. I think the moment I looked towards the back, and our eyes met, I knew this was all wrong. I hated it until the day in 1967 the two school systems became one and things started to change. It was nothing less than pure evil, the hatred sanctioned by state and local government. I can remember the "pillars of the church", elders, deacons, what have you, acting like the grand Christians that they were, and participating in this system from hell like it was part of the Christian life. God have mercy on everyone's miserable soul that took part in this.

    We have kids that need help, help from failed parents, failed school systems, failed examples in church and community. They are individuals, not black, not white, but a life created by the Lord. How dare anyone reference the difference in skin color. You were not there, you did not live it, but are distant observers. Everyone of you should hang your heads in shame. Is my position clear enough?
     
    #44 saturneptune, Feb 19, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2011
  5. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    That is exactly what he is saying, and he is 100% correct. Because the Dallas County Commissioner does, it is no excuse for giving license to you or anyone else to do so. So tell me, did anyone ever make you or your family eat outside in an alley? Did anyone ever give you a test before you could vote in Chinese? Talk is cheap.
     
  6. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    That really makes a lot of sense if you do not think about it.
     
  7. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Oh wow, another Republican apologist. Just what this nation needs. They did a bang up job 2001-2009 huh. Followed the Constitution every time.
     
  8. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Thats a fact.
     
  9. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member
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    Well, some of the broad, sweeping statements I have seen sound like it is every single person, and even "very large portion" I believe may be a bit exaggerated. You are seeing a lot of what the media (including stuff like the rap industry) trumps up, plus, again, the statistics, which are also often overrated.
    I did not accuse you of anything. You're not the only person in the thread. There are several others who have been saying the things I have been addressing.

    As for NiteShift's post, Saturn answered it well.
    I had never even heard of that person, so where do you get the notion that I condoned what he said for it to be a double-standard "rule" on my part? Talk about "excuses"; you don't use the worst example from some obscure figure like that as the pattern you justify your behavior by, for then, you're no better than what you are criticizing.
     
  10. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    When our government is spoken of people often use the phrase "Washington" to describe a narrow set of people, specifically the government. Such use of the word is always understood in this context when used to mean such but it is always understood also not to include every person in Washington D.C. Be careful what you defend and work to try to understand the context. Verify before settling on an assumption.
     
  11. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    More dissembling. As always.

    "...only mentioned..." Uh huh.
     
  12. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member
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    Referring to a government by city it is locate in is one thing, but that is a clearly defined boundary. The statements made about race are quite another thing, and have no such boundary. Especially since people make it clear they mean nearly everyone. ("African American communities are not safe for children", thus; "I'm not sure they are sending the kids out to go to school.", etc).
    Like you just thought I was accusing you of something, but I wasn't; you may not have done it, but the people who have been doing this have not even denied it,but instead further reiterated so you can't answer for them.
    Explain how that is "blaming" them for anything. 'Dissembling' is necessary, because you just throw out totally unfounded accusations about a whole statement, and what you are saying is just not there, anywhere, even in the minute details (to prove it).
    You get called out on this every time, and then eventually it only ends when, caught in the lie, you just slink away silently hoping noone notices or remembers. Either back it up, or give it up.
     
  13. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    More dissembling.

    Whenever someone calls you on your endless use of innuendo, you squeal like a stuck pig and deny it all.

    This feigned righteous indignation is just more of the same.

    Your racial leanings have been exposed numerous times by numerous people in this thread. Yet, you still deny it all. It's to be expected.
     
  14. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    I will bow out of this with this last statement. It is clear that you are over reacting as so many do and expanding the intent of others without cause. It seems you simply want them to be saying what they are not. It doesn't provide for reasonable debate. As O'rielly says so often "you get the last word."

    God Bless
     
  15. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member
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    Translation; you have no proof for your lying assertions, so you claim some "innuendo" (or some past "calling out" that is more of your imagination), where you can still make any statement say what you want, because your only defense (ever) is pointing back at the other person.

    And it's your side that is displaying the "righteous indignation" against these problematic "dysfunctional" people who you insist are trying to get something from you for nothing. I then spend my time responding to this, and you throw it onto me as "racial leanings"!
    Like who starts these threads? Who keeps talking about racial groups?
    Look at every other one of these discussions like this and see how it ends. You bait and switch charges of your own behavior, yet can't back up any of your accusations, and then cop out.

    (Do you see what your friend here is doing?)
    So I could respond with unsupported speculation about "innuendo", but what I will say is that you all do not like the kind of stuff that Dallas person said, or other generalistic statements people make, (regardless of how "literal" the extent was). So give another group the same respect.
     
  16. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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  17. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    In the USA in 2011 what passes for black culture is dysfunctional. The only people it serves is the hip hop artists and gangsters. Civilized black people have adopted the majority social contract.
     
  18. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    I have to side with Eric here.

    That is much too broad a brush. There is a lot more to black culture that hip hop and gangsters.

    And white people have historically had their share of gangsters.
     
  19. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member
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    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1639839&postcount=10
    Missed it, right? Don't you usually disagree with him? It was so surprising seeing you agree with him for a change!
    That's not what I said. You're putting it into your own words, and that doesn't count when you're judging my motives.
    What I said was "the 'morality' was [not ARE] often overboard (there was a lot of uptightness with sex seen as "dirty" in itself; 'pregnant' was once a dirty word, even)"

    That's quite different from what you claim.
    What I said was
    "So while there may have been more of a tight morality among the earlier black Christianity, the cultural uptightness was still not as ingrained in them as it was in the larger society, so they remained more open to sensual freedom. And this wasn't always sinful in itself (as God created the desires), it simply needed to be channeled into God's standards."

    How is that excusing anything? Where does that say "all the abortions are OK; because it's the white man's fault"?

    I'd like to see what your explanation for this is, then. How could one group of people have so much problems? If it was the preachers' faults, then what caused that?

    What you have shown is not any racial "prejudice". I'm not the one hashing out negative statistics on whites and then trying to scold them for their "astronomical" problems. You're the one doing all the judging, so you're the one who is prejudiced, only you think it is excused/justified by statistical numbers.
    (And don't try to hide behind that little correction of Billwald. What he said was not all that far off from your 90% of the race going Democrat solely because of the promise of "something for nothing").

    It's time for you to come out of the prosecutor's chair for once, with this sick little [conscience-soothing] defense trial fantasy of yours, and tell us where you're really coming from. You and others are so angry about this stuff, let's not forget, so tell us:

    •What is the real problem with blacks?
    •What should be done about it?
     
    #59 Eric B, Feb 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2011
  20. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    There is way more black on white violence now than the reverse. Whites who straggle into the wrong neighborhood are likely to get hurt. White kids in some schools do not even go to the restroom knowing that they'll be roughed up or robbed. I have family members who have experienced this. It is not 1960 anymore, and maybe we could stop using the back-of-the bus argument everytime the subject of race comes up.
     
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