Military or Market-Driven Empire Building: 1950-2008

We aren't so far apart on this as you may imagine NS. I don't view America as the source of evil in this world at all. It's the corrupt greedy and sleazy posers that use America's military and economic might to advance and consolidate their own wealth, power and control over their neighbors or fellow citizens and/or the world who I hold responsible. (and find despicable)

Not the USA. Big difference. I love this country and it's people...but I have no love or respect at all for those who use it and us for personal enrichment and self gratification and I never will. I won't make the mistake of confusing the two as one or lower myself to speak or act as if those who clearly understand this concept are somehow un-American, racist, demented or somehow deluded (or dangerous to society). I think those who do such things are being dishonest with not only the rest of us but themselves as well and doing a great diservice to the very country they claim to love above those they seek to marginalize and discredit. They dishonor the very principles and many many sacrifices it took to found the US of A and those who have and are actually doing their patriotic duty to jealously protect it from "all enemies foreign and domestic".

That's how I see it. I'm USA all the way! You...I don't know about yet but I still have high hopes for ya. :smilewinkgrin:

 

It's okay when those "acting" on behalf of the state hype threats spread fear and exploit those fears to consolidate the elite controlled state apparatus' already massive un-consitutionally attained powers and control though right? Even sweeter when you happen to be wearing the team colors of the...(what word am I looking for? let's see un-constituionally = un-lawful which = illegal which = a crime. So.) the criminals perpetrating the crime, correct?

That would make those who cheer them on while (desperately) trying to marginalize, discredit and silence opposition to their brazen criminal ways and covering up for and excusing them what exactly?

Accessories before and after the fact...wouldn't it? I'm not a lawyer or anything but maybe a "conspiracy to commit fraud" against the USA case could be made up if there were a brave and willing legal expert...hmmm...Obama is allegedly a constitutional usurper er eh hem, lawyer...well forget him he's part of the "conspiracy". Did you know that the word "conspiracy" is one of the most commonly used words in our legal system? Proving what, you might ask? Oh nothing just that "conspiracies" are manifest. So, it's silly, naive and a tad bit cliche I might add to dismiss them as merely the delusions of madmen.

(note* there are three seperate definitions of "conspiracy" hotlinked)

Neither am I. Count on it! :laugh: :applause: :thumbs:

Martin...I know you're always lurking around peaking at my posts when you think I'm not watching. I ain't done with you yet either bubba. :smilewinkgrin:

 

There's a couple of your objections I'd like to reply to NS but I'm pretty tired so I'm going to take a break for tonight. Let me just say I wasn't pointing a finger at you personally about trying to silence people. I was refering to the system in general and it's legions of talking heads that "educate the masses". Sorry I don't make that clearer in my posts. I'm just a humble glass guy and never had no fancy schoolin.

When ever you come across stuff like that don't take it personal it isn't meant that way. I'll be back after I get some rest.

One point I'd like to touch on though.

Mostly it comes from reading the constitution and the founders writtings and comparing it to what I see happening around us* today and throughout history. I'll tell ya this much tonight the massive unconstitutionalites started long before the Bush/Clinton coalition started working on them. You've got to widen your range of focus and try to focus more on the big picture. Stretch out NS, stretch out.

*us= the human race not just republicans and democrats or even citizens of one nation or another. (Refer to signature, can you agree with it?)

Think about it.

Later.

 

Yeah I know it starts out rough but stay tuned in Rev sooner or later I'll be rested up enough to go at it again.

Just not tonight.

 

Oh yeah NS...did you hear about the latest Pentagon propaganda program? Some of your garden variety empire builders right there, the state and the military industrial complex. Started a thread on it.

Been reading some Paul Craig Roberts tonight, wanna see it?

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts05132008.html

Apparently he has just read [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Patrick J. Buchanan's new book.

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I'll be ordering this book.

Think I can hear some fake conservatives coming this way now. (generally speaking)

Couldn't help it.

 

Haven't forgotten about you NS. It's the weekend now and I'll try to muster up the energy to get to those points of your's. Got a plan to go catch some stripped bass in the morning but I'll have a couple hours in the evening to spare. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Nobody to my knowledge including myself have ever claimed POTUS doesn't have the authority to conduct foreign surviellance without warrants. Here at home in these United States it's quite different. You've read the fourth amendment it's well written and easy enough to understand so you know what it means. General Hayden on the other hand thinks it gives the state the right to conduct "reasonable warrantless searches" on U.S. citizens and their property.On U.S. soil.

He's wrong about that...but correct about this.

 

My goal is to learn to be an individualist which isn't an easy thing I mght add after being steeped in the consensus of collectivism my whole life. It's going slower than I'd hoped for the most part but I'm improving.

I really have no use for the whole leftie vs rightie thing it only serves to distract us from real issues. Having no stake in either side is probably the most "freedom" I'll ever see in this life. So what both sides think I'm nuts...comes with the territory.

Centrist what's that? Someone who usually gives the state and it's controlling oligarchy the benefit of the doubt?

 

Sounds reasonable enough doesn't it? Problem is the government already had enough powers to get the job done. We can't keep giving more power more funding and more control to an institution that has a history of abusing it every time it feels like slipping it's restraints. I'm talking about government in general now.

The state always has a reasonable sounding reason for "needing" more power more funding and more control. Giving in to it whenever it starts whining about feeling it's restraints is neither conservative nor sane imho.

I agree that may have been the way of it for awhile but now what I see are two types of socialism, national and international being merged under the auspices of globalism or a global corporate fascism.

The political spectrum runs from 0% government, anarchy to 100% government, totalitarian. Most people think of fascism or national socialism as a rightie thing and communism or international socialism as a leftie thing. Spin it this way and that but they both end up being totalitarian at the same end of the political spectrum.

The whole leftie vs rightie paradigm is just a waste of time as far as I'm concerned. I don't feel like I need to join the republican party to be against abortion and why should I need to be a democrat to disagree with corporatism?

Bush is more a leftist BTW as internationalism is a leftie thing it's also a corporate thing. Guess they got the righties and lefties confused about what "side" they're on eh" That's why I'm usually purplexed and beffudled at the thought of all the proud self proclaimed righties here abouts going along with it. I suppose in their minds a perceived right wing NWO is better than a left wing NWO. Does it really matter if a global corporate totalitarian regime is leftie or rightie?

I think probably not.

Now you're getting back into the realm of mainstream consensus NS. This country was founded on principles based on the suspicion of government. The state and conglomerated corporate mass media have conditioned us over the years to think in opposition to those principles. It isn't un-natural or un- American to be suspicious of government NS it's our God given right and national heritage. Anyone who says different is trying to sell you a bum steer.:smilewinkgrin: