Mixed Swimming - Acceptable or Not?

I have been uncomfortable with men without shirts on long before I was a Christian...but I added this because it is all mostly about women and modest dress. Sorry if my thoughts are not quite welcome.

 

You bring up a good point. I think many men get caught up in what women wear (or are not wearing), as opposed to how they are to act in a given situation. Lust is looking upon a woman with sexual intentions. Just looking at or noticing a woman with a "shape" does not necessarily lead to lust, so being around a woman in a bikini does not = automatic lust.

 

The guy next door to me would definately be a sin if he wore no shirt when mowing the yard. There are some things that need to be covered up---especially beer guts.:smilewinkgrin: :laugh: raying:

Bro Tony

 

Webdog,

Hmm, I couldn't say that for certain--I'm not a man. Both my dad and my husband have told me that the thoughts that go through a guy's mind are really not deliberate, but are definitely there. More "susceptible" is the word. What they see affects them differently than how it would affect women. At least, that is what they told me. And they aren't the only guys who have mentioned that.

My dad used to say, "you can't keep a bird from flying over your head, but you can keep it from making a nest in your hair."

Anyway, rather than make up rules, I just ask myself if how I dress is helping or hindering guys. Sure, they need to control their minds, and I also need to control my attire--two way street.

Ciela

 

My point is not that anyone's body is a wicked thing.

My point is that women and men need to mutually respect each other in how they dress AND in how they ALLOW themselves to think about each other. My husband says that women who dress scantily send a message, and hopefully the guy is decent enough to ignore it. Two way street. Both are responsible not to stumble the other.

Showing off my body IS wicked, but the body itself isn't. Purposefully lusting after someone in the heart IS wicked.

Modesty is beautiful, not a ball and chain. Or Scripture itself would never have mentioned it.

Ciela

 

Actually, Scarlett, just browsing through here in a hurry, the thread was not derogatory about women's bodies. It was very complementary. That is the problem. Men like women's bodies in most cases, and they are instruments of sexual arousal. Most women don't understand that. When I first told my wife that years ago, she just couldn't grasp it. For that reason, women need to be very cautious what they wear. There is a reason why the vast majority of the porn industry is geared towards men ... because men like to look. And most men, in their honest moments, will tell you that a women in a bikini is a whole lot more arousing than a woman who is totally nude. A little something to the imagination is a great tool.

God commands modesty. And it is up to women to do their part to help men in the body of Christ. Yes, men are responsible for what they think; but women are to treat their brothers with love and accept that lust is a huge problem for most men. It is part of being a man. So the question is, Do you want to increase the chance that men will lust over your body? Will you feel like you have been edifying to the body if your style of dress is the reason why a man sins with lust? Is that really what you want to do to your brother?

 

I find it amazing that the attitude of many women is, "If you have a problem with it, don't look."

Wait a second. So the responsibility is only on their shoulders? As if they are blind as a stone. That isn't even realistic. If we expect them to control their thoughts, then by all means, we can control what we wear. Of the two, our responsibility is much simpler.

There is a big problem with immodesty in our day; it is just awful. Even my boss, an unsaved man, has sent girls home for showing off their belly buttons and wearing mini-skirts. Even he is appalled.

My dad was a school principal and sent a boy home for wearing an X-rated T-shirt to school. Yes--a boy. My brothers couldn't be shirtless at the table--out of politeness really.

Slinging hash is not necessary. Modesty--it is almost a dirty word these days--when it really is beneficial to both men and women.

Ciela

 

I think part of what Scarlett is saying is that topics like this can come across as saying "Men are just a mass of molecules that can do nothing but respond to stimuli." That's the feel I got for the topic after the first two pages.

Can someone cause someone else to stumble? Absolutely, but is the one who stumbled less guilty of sin? I don't think so.

Wouldn't the whole dynamic of this conversation have been changed if the first few posters said something like "We don't mix swim, because when I see a woman in a bikini, it's hard to be God honoring" ? Instead, the tone was "We don't mix swim because of the skimpy swimsuits the women wear." (the focus was put on what the women wear, rather than the resposne the men had to them.)

 

I've read most of the posts -- some I did just scan. I really like what Helen said. If you are going to swim, wear that one piece. If you are at the pool and not swimming, wear a cover up. If I had a daughter, I'd insist on a one piece.

I do think we should be modest and completely agree with Bro.Tony about that guy with the beer belly. *icky shiver* But I also think we have to use good judgement here or we will end up like a burka covering society. How do gals play basketball in those things?

I was raised in a home where extreme modesty was a must. My skirts were below the knee. I never got to wear sleeveless. My mom made my bathing suits (yes, she really did). That last little fact means that I did not learn how to swim. It was very hard being that different. There was NO conversation about the importance of modesty. I think that conversation with your children about what the Bible says and about why you feel the way you feel about dress and modesty is a must. Also, if you are going to insist on something different (like a homemade bathing suit), then by all means allow your child the opportunity to decline opportunities while they come to grips with their feelings. Yes, there is story for that one, but I can only share so much in one sitting without getting meloncholy.

As, I said, I think conversation about the whys are very important. I rebelled when I got the the age when I felt free enough to rebel. I never understood some of the dress restrictions. I was frequently embarrassed because I had no ownership in this issue. I've got a much better understanding today, but I'm grown with grown children of my own. I'm modest, but not as modest as my mom would have me be.

 

It ain't the mixed swimming that's wrong. It's the mixed nudity.

 

mcdirector,

what you described as "extreme modesty" is what we describe as normal in my house. (except for I don't make swimsuits.)

I think you'll agree that the big problem there was that the reasons behind those standards were not explained to you. I think we too often use the "easy" way with our kids and just say "because I'm telling you so", instead of meeting an honest question with a well-thought out answer.
I hope that those of us here have our reasons well enough hammered out in our own heads that we could explain them to our kids in a way that won't cause resentment....wherever our lines are drawn.

 

bapmom,

That lack of communication that I experienced was the very reason I posted! I wanted my sons to know why I believed what I believed. I wanted them to see my faith in action. I'm sure most everyone here is sharing why they believe and expect the things they do, I just wanted to give a bit of food for thought for those that don't.

AND, today, I know more about my parents and why they operated the way they did. They both had a tremendous amount of baggage and did the best they could. It was tough then, but understandable looking back.

 

After I left this morning I went to the gym. I thought MNW could not go here. After the gym I went to the department of motor vehicels to regester my truck. After a few girls walked in I thought MNW certenly could not be in here.

So I thought about you all day :tongue3:

I dont see anyway of removing myself from all the places that this comes up. And I have trouble with the half way stuff. The its ok to be around half naked people in the gym and the DMV, but not at the pool. I cant understand that.

 

Please could somebody explain to me why a man with out his shirt on is immodest. I dont understand that, there are no parts to cover up.

This is all new to me, I have never heard anybody have a problem with swiming or shirtless guys until this thread. And I was suprised how many of you are onboard.

It was in the mid 90s today here. I can only imagin holding your position in Arizona or New Mexico. HOT

 

Just because there are no parts to cover up does not make it modest to not wear a shirt. You don't little girls that have not budded yet going topless - ever. Or a woman that has had a double mastectomy. Seems like a double standard to me.

 

Until part way into the last century a man could be arrested for not wearing a shirt.

Years ago I worked at a very nice conservative Christian camp. All the girls were required to wear a one piece swim suit. There were times when fundamentalist groups rented the entire camp and brought in their own preachers. What we always noticed was the fact that in the fundamentalist groups the boys would stand around the pool and look at the girls on the times they swam.

But in other groups with mixed swimming that did not happen.