MMF - christian rock is evil

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Why do Christians need to copy the world's music and then try to justify it as being right? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think if you loook closely, you'll find a lot of stuff in your daily life like this. And you don't complain about it. How about the first book, in book form. What was it?
I don't know, but I'll bet it wasn't a bible,so were christians copying the world by making the bible into a book?

Legalism has no place in christianity.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by katie:


I think if you loook closely, you'll find a lot of stuff in your daily life like this. And you don't complain about it. How about the first book, in book form. What was it?
I don't know, but I'll bet it wasn't a bible,so were christians copying the world by making the bible into a book?

Legalism has no place in christianity.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your wrong Katie. Johan Gutenburg, a German printer invented the first printing press in 1448, and by 1455 he had printed his first book "The Gutenburg Bible."
Legalism is often misconstrued by many Christians. It is not a matter of legalism. What you may see as legalism in others is actually a matter of holiness. How close are you willing to walk with the Lord? How holy a life are willing to have? How much of the world are you willing to give up? No man that warreth entangleth himselg with the afffairs of this world."
DHK

 

Two points:
#1. God knows I have some problems with Carman's music and doctrine but the issue isn't whether or not you like Carman but whether or not christian rock is evil.

#2. Since when is Carman considered "rock"? Not only is he not rock, he is so far from rock that he makes Rich Mullins look like Ozzy Osbourne.

 

DHK, so you believe there were no books before the Guttenburg Bible?

And yes telling someone else they that music is evil, is legalism. Some on here act as if those who listen to music aren't christians, aren't going to heaven. Thats all legalism.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> What you may see as legalism in others is actually a matter of holiness. How close are you willing to walk with the Lord? How holy a life are willing to have? How much of the world are you willing to give up? No man that warreth entangleth himselg with the afffairs of this world."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So if I listen to music I am not walking with God? I am not willing to live holy life? And how would you know anything about it? You statement is based on legalism. One can not be close to God if they listen to music. you need to be judging yourself.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> afffairs of this world <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This could include a lot more then music. Maybe you should find out what more it might mean, and see if your as holy as you think you are.

Do you watch the news? Listen to it on the radio? Do you vote? And you could add a 1000 more things to the list.
These are the affairs of the world.

 

Katie,
"DHK, so you believe there were no books before the Guttenburg Bible?"
That's right Katie, according to your own words, "How about the first book, in book form. What was it?" The answer: "The Bible." There were no "books in book form," as you put it in your own question before Guttenburg. The Bible, and the various manuscripts that it was preserved on were scrolls made of parchment or velum. Parchment was more common and more cheaply made from the reeds that grew near the rivers of Israel. Velum was scarcer and more expensive. It was made from the hide of an animal. In either case they were scrolls, not books. The first book, "in book
form," as you put it, was the Guttenburg Bible. There were no other "books" before that time.

"And yes telling someone else they that music is evil, is legalism."
Is this what I said? Lets not put words in peoples' mouths. I too listen to music. Music per se is not wrong. I never said it was. Blasphemy is wrong. Immorality is wrong. Drugs are wrong. Illicit sex is wrong. And certain kinds of music are wrong. Music that promotes any of the above mentioned sins and rebelliousness is wrong. Perhaps you need to go through Carmen's lyrics more carefully, then look in a dictionary at the word "blasphemy." Carmen's lyrics fit this bill quite well. Calling sin, SIN is not legalism. It is simply telling the truth, something a lot of people don't want to hear.

"Some on here act as if those who listen to music aren't christians, aren't going to heaven. Thats all legalism."
Katie, I never questioned your salvation, not even once. This has nothing to do with salvation whatsoever. It has everything to do with a person's walk with God.

"So if I listen to music I am not walking with God? I am not willing to live holy life? And how would you know anything about it? You statement is based on legalism. One can not be close to God if they listen to music. you need to be judging yourself."
---Your walk with God is between you and God. So is the music you listen to. "So if I listen to music..." I never inferred or said that listening to music was wrong. The type of music one constantly listens to may indicate something of their spirituality. For example, if a person was getting a steady dose of Marilyn Manson, and claimed to be a spiritual Christian, what would you think? My statements are not based on legalism, you just think they are. As far as judging oneself, I don't have the problem with the music since I don't have it and I don't listen to it. But if you have it and you listen to it, and its words are ungodly and do not glorify the Lord---then you have a problem.

‘Affairs of this world.' "This could include a lot more then music. Maybe you should find out what more it might mean, and see if your as holy as you think you are."
--You are right. It does include a lot more than music. It involves a total way of life that Christ expects us to live. You might compare it to that of one of the soldiers of the special unit forces going into Afghanistan. He doesn't have much of the comforts of home does he? He probably isn't carrying with him into those Himalayan mountains his cd player, or stereo, on which to play all his favorites. In fact he has to give up pretty much all the comforts of this world. That's precisely why Paul said to Timothy: (2Tim.2:3,4)
3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
"Do you watch the news? Listen to it on the radio? Do you vote? And you could add a 1000 more things to the list. These are the affairs of the world."
---I don't think Paul had voting and the news in mind when he penned these verses. A soldier must be separated from the things of this world. Study those related verses.

One of my favorite hymns was written by Isaac Watts:

Am I a soldier of the cross? A follower of the Lamb?
And shall I fear to own His cause, Or blush to speak his Name?
Must I be carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease,
While others fought to win the prize, And sailed thru bloody seas.

Are there no foes for me to face? Must I not stem the flood?
Is this vile world a friend to grace, To help me on to God?
Sure I must fight if I would reign— Increase my courage, Lord!
I'll bear the toil, endure the pain, Supported by Thy Word.

We still sing this hymn. Do you? Can you?
DHK

 

Dr. Bob, please don't give us all game misconducts! This has actually been a rather mild thread, and I don't recall anyone losing any teeth! but it is getting uncontrollablely long. I guess 6 overtime periods should be enough. But let me remind you, Hockey doesn't have a 2 minute warning.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It involves a total way of life that Christ expects us to live. You might compare it to that of one of the soldiers of the special unit forces going into Afghanistan. He doesn't have much of the comforts of home does he? He probably isn't carrying with him into those Himalayan mountains his cd player, or stereo, on which to play all his favorites. In fact he has to give up pretty much all the comforts of this world.
A soldier must be separated from the things of this world. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That then would also include classical and traditional styles (which you hold as "non worldly) as well. (Actually, I'm sure soldiers can bring little radios and CD players with them. They certainly tried to bring pornography and alcohol with them to the Gulf, but had to refrain since it was offensive to the people over there). Anyway, bad analogy.

 

The analogy in itself isn't bad. The Scripture itself says, "No man that goes to war." Paul is not referring to staying at base camp, where the alcohol and whatever else you mention might be found. The picture he paints is of a soldier on the move, one that is going, not one staying at camp. I tried to picture a soldier in search of the enemy in the Afghanistan mountains, on the go, always keeping in communication with HQ, never being detracted by things around him, always focused. This is the life of a soldier--always focused. Are you focused on the Lord?
DHK

 

The argument is of one style of music over another, but this does not apply to a physical war, where NO music would be brought along to the battlefield. This cannot be used to represent focus on the Lord, or lack thereof.

 

I am "focused" on the Lord when I am able to listen and meditate on Godly music according to Col.3:16. My focus is taken off the Lord when I am drawn away into the world by worldly music. "Mo man entangleth himself with the affairs of this world."
DHK

 

Before our beloved Dr. Bob shuts down this thread, let me briefly "weigh in." I've read many of the posts (not all) and have a general conclusion--EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE FULLY PERSUADED IN HIS (HER) OWN MIND. We really can't dictate what a person listens to or doesn't listen to, can we? The principles enunciated and the counter-arguments posted have all been done is a passionate manner. Each side is to be commended for their good thinking. What it all must come down to is HOW DOES THIS MUSIC MAKE THE LORD FEEL? We are told to avoid grieving the Holy Spirit of God. We are told to quench not the Spirit. The things that grieve Him and quench Him are the things that God the Son had to die for---pride, rebellion, immorality, drunkenness, witchcraft, covetoueness, unrestrained fleshly living, etc. If the music we listen to promotes those things, we must avoid it. Why? Because we are conscious of not grieving/quenching the Holy Spirit. Where things get tricky is when we talk about the ELEMENT of secular rock music in CCM (Christian Rock and other forms of contemporary music). That is where we tread delicate/tricky ground. Brethren, be careful!