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Moral question

Discussion in 'Other Discussions' started by Salty, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Was watching a re-run of the Brady Bunch -
    The plot centered around the big football fame.
    Greg, of course was paying for the home team.
    The QB of the other team - started to date Marica so he could
    steal Gregs playbook.

    When Greg found out the real reason- he made up a fake playbook.
    it ends up that the opposing QB stole the fake playbook.

    Later, Mr. Brady tells Greg that was being dishonest (having a fake playbook)
    and that he should call the QB and tell him.

    So here is the moral question.

    Was Greg wrong in making a fake playbook
    Was it necessary for Greg to call the other QB?
     
    #1 Salty, Oct 11, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  2. Adonia

    Adonia Active Member
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    In a strict moral sense Greg was wrong, but as things sometimes go in life the opposing player got what he deserved because of his own subterfuge. Yes, Greg could have been completely honest and called to guy up and tell him he was on to his subterfuge. But really, no reason was really needed as Marcia was a pretty girl in her own right and I would have dated her in a heartbeat (if she would have gone out with me).
     
    #2 Adonia, Oct 11, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  3. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    In WWII, the Allies placed fake invasion plans on uniformed cadavers, and set them afloat where the Axis powers would find them.

    Eerily familiar to our Brady Bunch episode.
     
  4. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Suppose a team suspects the opposition has figured out their signals at the line, so they change them.Would that be wrong? Is it different from changing the playbook the opposition is thought to have?
     
  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    You are asking this of someone who sets less than lethal booby traps at my lake cabin? That is kind of like asking if putting a dye pack in the bank robbery money is immoral.
     
  6. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Look at almost every battle plan God gave Israel in the O.T.
     
  7. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    It is never right to do wrong, even it results in a greater right.

    Doing wrong, no matter how just it may seem to be is and remains wrong.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    But did Greg do the wrong thing, by allowing the QB to steal a fake playbook.

    If it was wrong - why?
     
  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    So, wht did Rahab get mentioned in the hall of fame of faith? Why did the spies lie? Why do Angels disguise themselves as men?
     
  10. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    The principle of the Scriptures do not allow for wrong to be considered as right.

    Greg’s purpose was the same as Rachel’s - to deceive.

    The question boils down to the character of God (for the believer is to be holy as He is holy).

    The God of Heaven cannot be deceitful.

    Might he use the deceitfulness of others to His purpose?

    Certainly, but authorizing that use of deceit is not the same as authoring the deceit.

    Rehab was authorized to use deceitfulness, but God did not author the deceitfulness.
     
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  11. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    There is not an angel of the most high that even disguised as men can of their nature be deceitful.

    The minute such a lie is found in them, they are and have been apportioned as aligned with the Father of All Lies.

    Taking on a disguise is not indicating one is deceitful, rather it may be they are investigating, testing, protecting, or doing some other purposed work for the Father
     
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  12. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Is it wrong in football to 'fake' a handoff? Is it wrong in baseball for a pitcher to give the fastball motion and then throw a changeup?

    How about in law enforcement? Is it wrong to go "undercover" and pose as a buyer of illegal drugs in order to arrest a pusher?

    How about missionaries who do not tell their true purpose in being in a foreign country which may kill them?
     
  13. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    It is never right to do wrong.

    Surely, you understand that the believer is to be the ambassador of the most high God.

    Is the holy God deceitful in any manner?

    Believers are to be holy just as He is holy. It is the principle to strive for not the practice achieved.

    What manner of God would allow His own adopted children to be deceitful and claim it righteousness?
     
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  14. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    The engagements on this thread reveal that the underlying premise may be the philosophical lie that the ends justify the means, or as known as “situational ethics” commonly stated as what is the most loving or for the greater good.

    The ungodly rulers stated, “One must die, that all not die.”

    A scenario often used to portray this thinking is the dire situation in which death will come to a loved one or to someone who can invent or has knowledge to save many. One must chose which is more loving, to save the loved one or one who in turn can save the many.

    Such a scenario is never reality, despite the Hollywood dramas, and storylines of the fanciful.

    The Scriptures never agree with such thinking.

    When real encounters are given such as Mosses in the reeds, Rahab and the spies, Saul let down in a basket, ... these are not formed with the intent of deceit, but from the single focus of doing God’s will.

    Followers of Christ must learn to discern between what is formulated as deceit, and what is the design of God’s purpose.

    One of the keys to gaining the insight for such discernment is to be foundationally established that it is never right, Holy, just, righteous to do wrong.
     
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  15. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    The spies takeig on a disguise and being deceitful?
     
  16. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Would God take on a disguise to be deceitful, or to protect others?

    Did He not clothe Himself in flesh?

    But was the intent to deceive to cause harm?

    What was the spies intent? What is the intent of the worldly spy?

    One is typically schooled and learns situational ethics because it fits the world view. However, God’s standard has typically not been reflected in the world view.

    This is why when I posted, “It is never right to do wrong ...” is was clearly by the responses an extreme statement.

    Yet, it remains that which is Scriptural.
     
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  17. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    If a woman has had a breast removed, and she wears a false one under her clothing, is that "deceit?"
     
  18. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Then answer the questions asked: is it wrong to fake a handoff in football?
     
  19. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Is it wrong to deliberately foul in the waning minutes of a basketball game to stop the clock and force the other team to shoot free throws so you can get the ball back?


    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
     
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  20. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Actually, didn’t I state that it is never right to do wrong? One cannot do right by doing wrong.

    The practice of deceiving has many examples, some in which the deceit is done for the greater good. But whose greater good?

    The philosophy of situational ethics allows for one to determine where greater love, or good, or favor, ... is presented, however, I don’t recall an illustration of that thinking that doesn’t involve someone ultimately being hurt or dead as a result.

    Two questions:

    Does a Holy God ever do wrong?
    Would you trust a person or even God who does wrong?
     
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