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More on Ordination

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Tom Butler, Nov 11, 2010.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Two problems -

    (1) Does Acts 6 = "deacons"? Look at these men, their character and ministry (detailed for us to be far different than any "deacon" today), and you will see them fulfilling the ministry of "elders"

    Remember, these men were to do service in place of the Apostle, not as deacons to the elders.

    (2) Where does it say they were ordained? The common Greek word is to appoint, set or make. Only in special settings is "formal ordination" assumed from such a use.

    I'm trying to find a single English translation is Acts 6 that even implies "formal ordination". And the list of qualifications from I Tim et al for elders is very different than that for deacons.

    AV = appoint over this business
    NIV = turn this responsibility over to them
    NASB = put in charge of this task
    NRSV = appoint to this task
     
  2. jaigner

    jaigner Active Member

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    Or maybe it's righting a ghastly, horrific injustice that has been largely pervasive throughout the history of the Church.

    But it's the context in which the Bible is written. Polygamy was once accepted. So was sexism. That does not make it normative for every place in time, though.

    If it were so clear, it wouldn't be disputed by so many honest, dedicated, evangelical biblical scholars today.

    None of us has Truth so neatly packed an in our hands to assume we have the final word on this issue.
     
  3. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Stepping back from the question of whether or not deacons wer ordained in Acts 6, I want to touch on the issue of "authority" and "servanthood."

    I am convinced that too often we follow a worldly model of power where pastors (or elders) is the boss and everyone else serves the program of the vocational staff. However, I think the model of Jesus is the Servant, Who gains His authority with others by His service. In the Upper Room where the disciples were discussing who would be greatest, Jesus performed the work of a servant, washing His disciples feet to demonstrate His love for them and to show them the proper mindset from which to operate. He gave them a new commandment, to love others as He has loved them (not simply loving one's neighbor as themselves, because many of us have trouble loving ourselves from time to time).

    Taking that lesson back to our discussion, deacons are certainly servants of the church, distributing resources to meet practical needs and having authority to use the resources of the church as the represent the gospel in action. Pastors and elders must also be servants (or else they are not disciples of Christ) who gain their moral and spiritual authority from the gospel lived out in their lives. This authority must not come from an office in the church, one's name on the sign outside, one's degrees from academic institutions, personal charisma, a television/radio ministry, an ordination certificate or connections within a denomination.
     
  4. John Toppass

    John Toppass Active Member
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    So, are you saying the Bible as it is written is horrifically unjust? Are we to believe God's word changes, depending on the place or the time.

    When we place our beliefs in what scholars write just because they may be honest, dedicated and evangelical we open ourselves to the failure of humans. We should be relying on the word of God which is just as meaningful and righteous now as the day it was written.

    You are right, none of us has the Truth in our hands. But the Holy Spirit sent to us will impart the Truth in our hearts. The Truth is not reliant on what scholars think. The Truth is Word of God and no matter how many scholars twist and massage the Truth, their truth still does not override God's Word.
     
  5. mikemaccalla

    mikemaccalla New Member

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    It really comes down to the issue of final authority. Is the bible your final authority, or is it some scholar or our own personal preferences, which anyone can justify by casting doubt on the scriptures by wresting them with corrupted greek and hebrew lexiconography.

    The bible corrects me I don't correct it.

    Remember the devils first words in scripture. "Yea, hath God said?"
     
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